How much would my Hanoverian cross be worth?

[js]

I’m a little confused. With what breed organization is he registered with? His papers show he is AQHA but the DNA says Hanoverian, Holsteiner, and Trakehner gelding, is that correct? I wouldn’t trust DNA so much; I would however contact AQHA and as about the registration papers.

He doesn’t sound green if he is 8 and was trained for the H/J ring and then switched to reining, just needs a tune up from sitting around. Horse may be confused by going from H/J to reining, not to mention how the reining trainer is riding him.

For what its worth he is what someone is willing to pay for him. If he is AQHA and has a show record (which you can find out thru the AQHA or ask someone to look up his registration #) he might be worth a bit more.

[skrgirl]

@findeight

What “Reining” trainer had him for a year and a half…under the impression he was an Appendix,? What did that trainer train him to do? Where was he shown in Reining? How did he get out of 18 months in a Reining barn with no ground manners? Also, Reiners aren’t generally 16.1 with lengthy trots, they are usually built to sprint, spin on the hinds and dig deep into a sliding stop. That’s a different build then Jumpers and certainly low and long moving Hunters.

This was my thought too. If he is built for reining (which 16.1h and warmblood is definitely not) then he will never be a suitable hunter or jumper. I would not even both to mention to anyone that he had reining training. Guarantee it was some backyard wanna be.

[rockonxox]

@skrgirl

This was my thought too. If he is built for reining (which 16.1h and warmblood is definitely not) then he will never be a suitable hunter or jumper. I would not even both to mention to anyone that he had reining training. Guarantee it was some backyard wanna be.

cough we’ve got a cute little jumper at our barn who is a former reiner. Incredibly cute jumper. Never say never Now, is this going to be a horse that wins WEF and the likes, absolutely not. But she is cute and very quick on her feet and leaves the jumps up so for the local schooling and even through the A’s in our immediate area she can absolutely place in jumpers. That being said, marketing a hunter as having prior reining experience or a reiner as having prior hunter experience… that doesn’t quite add to their value.

[cclohorse]

The only reason why I’m a bit against selling to my trainer is due to the fact that she wants me to keep him till the summer so she can buy him off me. In relation to this, she wants me to continue his training and expects me to give him to her for free. Yes, I can negotiate an agreement with her. But no matter what, I’ll still be paying money some way until she can fully buy him in the summertime. At this point I see why it would be a good reason for him to go to a trainer, but, her terms of buying aren’t exactly what I’d like.

DNA and appendix wise, she has no papers for her to formerly think he was an appendix. She gave me all the papers supporting that he indeed could be a warmblood. A poorly bred one, yes, but still a warmblood. If I was to register him in the American Warmblood Association, they would require a DNA hair sample to be sent in (I looked it up). The DNA test that I have paperwork from was based off a hair sample. If I was to send a hair sample in, it would more than likely register as the same breeds. I understand that there could be some probability that he’s something else, but the paperwork I received with him states that he’s solely the 3 breeds mentioned above. I wouldn’t advertise him as an unknown breed because I would be bringing his price down drastically to the point where I would probably barely be able to sell him for a grand. I also definitely would not advertise him as a German Warmblood… but rather I’ve advertised him as a cross, which is what he really is and already degrades him from the common thought of a purebred warmblood when a buyer sees “German Warmblood”. Let me clarify that I NEVER was going to advertise him as German Warmblood in the first place, please visibly see why the title of this discussion is “Hanoverian Cross”.

With pricing, I’m not trying to appeal to a nice hunter/jumper market. I don’t expect him to be in A circuit shows or even remotely close to them, maybe with good training he could go to some good hunter shows, but thats up to whomever has him next. He is rideable, every horse has or had some type of flaw, his was bucking and rearing. But once again, he does not do that anymore. His bolting isn’t even common and extreme enough to even consider it as a serious problem, but of course I would still mention it to the buyer. You could even prevent it from happening by lunging him before, but thats personal preference. Even if you don’t lung him before, he’s fine. But even with this I would never advertise him to a beginner home, my trainer and I both think that any rider riding him should at least be intermediate. The market in Southern California varies. Many people don’t buy TBs, except for trainers who flip. Many people don’t buy QH, unless trained and with good breeding. But even these breeds, that are not quite sought for in this region, go for at least 4k and in good health, 5k. There are many TB X Warmbloods and Warmbloods X drafts that sell for 5-6k and considered projects! There isn’t a big market for them because they sell as fast as they get advertised. Its either you import your warmblood from Europe, ship it from across the country, or buy one locally. To be fair, there are many people in Los Angeles that can afford to ship a horse out from Europe, but there are also many people who don’t care for a purebred and want a cheaper option. I’ve already been contacted from a buyer who offered me 4k and they didn’t “run the other way” when I told them the full story. I’m not falsely advertising this horse to receive that type of outcome from a buyer.

But in all due respect, I’m asking politely for advice and trying to learn out of this experience. I’ve found that many of these comments aren’t quite friendly but rather a bit tormenting. So it would be really cool if you guys could understand that i’m simply learning and not trying to get harassed. I know that this stuff can get a bit annoying because I sound uneducated in this realm but please don’t try and degrade me, thanks.

[fanfayre]

i agree with Scribbler- $3000 TOPS, and probably a lot less
I’m kind-of “looking” for a new project (one that wants to jump). I have many years experience with youngsters, oldsters, green-broke, not broke (lol), badly broke, well trained, you get the picture.
I also don’t want something huge, so 16.1 is at the upper end of my search criteria. That said, I also agree that unless that rider is 6’7 or 8" your horse is nowhere near 16.1. I’m also one that doesn’t ride the papers unless they are fabulous papers.
He’s something I would be interested in, but only at a very reasonable price, and I’m not looking to flip but keep it for myself as long as I can, so it has to be the right horse at the right price

ETA; So why haven’t you accepted the 4K offer yet? It’s way above what you’re being told here, and sounds like no strings either. Win-Win!

[Livie]

Your horse is a really cute, useful looking sort. I’m sure that alone will get you some interest. He’s a great age to sell so I think with some careful advertising you could end up getting low to mid four figures for him, depending on your connections.

At that price range, you will only lose money if you hang onto him and keep paying bills until your trainer buys him in the summer.

As far as the warmblood thing, those breed type DNA tests are really just for fun. They aren’t admissible to a breed registry. When a breed registry does DNA, it’s to compare it to known sire and dam they already have on file. Instead of pursuing this route, you’re better off advertising him as a cute grade horse and just showing some good photos of what he looks like and what he can do.

[Mac123]

I’m confused, your trainer wants to buy him or wants you to give him to her free? You state both within the same paragraph.

Earlier you mentioned him not wanting to go to the trainer because she was planning on flipping him and you want him to to to a forever home. Keep in mind that such thinking simply provides a false sense of peace for your own mind. Horses that get sold to a “forever home” get re-sold ALL the time. The reality is that once you sell a horse, you lose control over their future. As well, you have a better chance of him ending up in a longer-term home if he gets some solid training put on him. It’s not the worst thing in the world at all for him to go to a competent trainer who can get him more prepared for a good home.

If you don’t want him to go to the trainer due to specifics of the actual sale or situation with her, that’s one thing. But that aside, keep in mind that she may be the best option for him to end up in a great home.

As far as price, honestly, breed is a little irrelevant here. With his level of training, I wouldn’t pay more for him if he were a registered Hannoverian. That matters a little more when they’re 4 and you need good breeding to give an indication of future performance. But at the moment, he’s a mid-aged horse with very little training or consistency. It doesn’t sound like that’s his fault and it sounds like he’s a decent fellow. I would say $3500 is about the most I’d pay for something like him. I would invest some time and effort in getting him to look as great as you can, and take the time to get some really pretty pictures of him. Spend as much time as you have to get him respectful and pleasant on the ground and as rideable as possible. Those are the things that really matter - way more than whether he’s Appendix or Warmblood (if he were in the $15k quality/training level, than it would matter, but as he is now, not so much).

[skrgirl]

@rockonxox

cough we’ve got a cute little jumper at our barn who is a former reiner. Incredibly cute jumper. Never say never Now, is this going to be a horse that wins WEF and the likes, absolutely not. But she is cute and very quick on her feet and leaves the jumps up so for the local schooling and even through the A’s in our immediate area she can absolutely place in jumpers. That being said, marketing a hunter as having prior reining experience or a reiner as having prior hunter experience… that doesn’t quite add to their value.

Ok, you are right, never say never. My hunter is actually a Hollywood Dun It cutting reject and my moms TRUE reiner can jump around some smaller fences. But a true reiner needs to be built very down hill, be short and be very very responsive to any slight movement in your body. None of those are qualifications you want in a hunter. And the ‘reining’ pictures of this horse, he doesnt look like he has any potential to be a reining horse.

[Scribbler]

OP, do you have an actual verified paper account of who his dam and sire are?

If not, he is not eligible for registration anywhere, not QH or Appendix or WB. You cannot even make any truthful claims as to what his cross is. Any savvy buyer will want to see papers. You have a grade horse without papers or a clear history. Happens a lot actually, horses separated from their papers or not registered at birth.

I can see why you don’t want to sell to your trainer. She wants to keep you paying the expenses for another six or seven months, then give her the horse for free.

I suggest you tell her that you need to sell the horse now, and are going to actively pursue this.

First you need to “stick” him so you have a true accurate measurement of his height. Some buyers want smaller, some want bigger. People who are determined to get 16 hands plus are going to be upset if they drive out to try him and he turns out to be 15.2.

Then you put up a sales ad that says:

Project horse: xx hand high gelding, eight years old, nice movement. Goes walk/trot/canter, started lead changes, has some exposure to small jumps. Still green with some quirks. With miles, would make nice low level hunter/jumper mount. I bought him as a project xx months ago, and we have done extensive work on his ground manners and some work under saddle, but I don’t have the time or funds to carry this forward. He would be best suited as a project horse for a trainer, or for an ammie with strong support from a trainer. Not suitable for a child rider at this point. No papers, sold to me as a warmblood, cannot verify this.Asking $3000, open to offers. Motivated seller.

Accompany this with a good standup conformation shot and a short video that shows his best walk, trot and canter on a relatively loose rein, not bolting or frantic.

Take the first offer of $2000 that comes from a competent trainer. Refuse to sell to clueless mothers who will be posting on COTH in six months “why does my child’s horse bolt?”

If your trainer makes an offer or even says she will take him now in mid winter, sell him to her.

Every month you pay board on a horse you don’t want, his total cost to you is going up and up.

[rockonxox]

Low to mid 4 figures is what you’d get around here. Whatever you think is reasonable in your area go with that (you seem to know what value you want us to say) and be open to negotiation. Always better (imo) to price a smidge higher (while keeping in mind that you don’t want to scare off potential buyers so I’d say no more than 4 figures based on your description) and know that you are probably going to have some negotiations because there are a lot of negotiable factors with your horse, or with any horse. I would double check height by sticking… because I am in agreement that the photos don’t appear that 16.1h is right. I would also get some better photos, if you don’t have them, that really show your horse off. He looks cute, but these are not the best photos for a sales post. I wouldn’t waste your time and money registering with AWR as it really will add so little if any value for your horse.

[MustangTwist]

If he fairly brave? Does he move nicely on the flat? If so, you could consider marketing him to 3-day eventers. Eventers tend to care more about functionality over breed/appearance, and for the lower levels they don’t need a horse with quite as much scope (or perfect form) as in the H/J world. They also appreciate a horse that’s been cross-trained, to some extent, because it shows the horse is adaptable.

[fanfayre]

@MustangTwist
I’m an eventer and why I posted what I posted!

[paintedpony]

If you have an offer of 4 K, put your hand out for the money, and call out to your friend to “start the car” !!!

I can only tell you what this horse would sell for in my neck of the woods. Horse looks 14.3 - 15 H in pictures, so definitely not filling the desired tallness box. Older gelding of questionable parentage (also called grade where I come from), bad manners, gaps in training, no job successes, and a history of rearing and taking off…you would be hard pressed to get 1K. Even if he moves nice and is kinda cute.

[Rackonteur]

@Toblersmom

No, no he’s not a German Warmblood in any way, shape or form, based on anything that has been stated thus far, and anybody with any sense that answers an ad referring to him as one, and then gets the full story, is going to run screaming in the other direction because they will not trust another word that’s told to them.

If he IS a mix of Hanoverian, Trakehner, and Holsteiner, then, since those three are German breeds, he is a German warmblood even if not a registered German Warmblood. And yes, I deleted my post because since posting it I’ve read more posts and realized that no one knows what breed/s he is.

We don’t even know how big he is since apparently in all the time OP has had him she’s never measured him.

[Rackonteur]

I will just add, OP do you have any proof his previous owner’s hip was shattered in a car and not in a fall off this guy?

And why do you say he’s 16.1? Have you measured him?

[NoSuchPerson]

@cclohorse

But in all due respect, I’m asking politely for advice and trying to learn out of this experience. I’ve found that many of these comments aren’t quite friendly but rather a bit tormenting. So it would be really cool if you guys could understand that i’m simply learning and not trying to get harassed. I know that this stuff can get a bit annoying because I sound uneducated in this realm but please don’t try and degrade me, thanks.

It would be really cool if you could be a little more forthcoming with the details and an honest representation of the situation. You’ve contradicted yourself a couple of times, I still haven’t figured out exactly what kind of papers you have, and you’ve mostly ignored or haven’t quite completely answered the questions people have asked. You’ve said a lot of stuff, but haven’t actually conveyed much useful information.

[Scribbler]

I missed that bit about the ,$4000 offer. Take it. If you wait around 2 months and pay $500 a month board even if you sell him for $5000 you are no further ahead.

He’s not a $10,000 horse at this point. He is not going to pay your college tuition. If you are finished with him move him on as fast as you can.

[Posting_Trot]

One possible wildcard in this situation that I don’t think the OP addressed is that, if the OP is a minor, then her parents probably have to sign off on any deal she makes.

This might be a complication, especially if the parents are not particularly horse-savvy.

[vxf111]

I’m less on hot on him having seen photos than before. He does not look like a sufficiently talented horse to overcome the problems, price wise. Unless he is really, really talented and those photos are deceptive-- take the $4000 offer and be glad. If this seems like a legit person I can’t imagine why you’re even hesitating.

[findeight]

Guessing, maybe, 3500. Tops. If he PPEs sound.

Would OP care to share the sire and dam named on the papers she has? And what kind of papers are they? Breeding certificate listing cover and foaling dates plus stud and mare? Application to a registry or studbooks that were never sent in? If so, what registry or studbook?

Not trying to beat you up here, trying to help establish a history for this horse that might help you sell him. Many breeders are very helpful to current owners of their product, whether they ever got into the books or not, and accomplishments of parents can hint at ability of their offspring to accept training in general. And easy to work with parents have easy to work with babies which people are more likely to buy. So what info is on the papers you have?

To me, this horse has been yahooed around and strikes me as something I might have bought to resell back in the day for 1500-2000 max. Needs to be untrained before retraining thanks to that " Reining trainer" yanking his head to his chest. No wonder horse misbehaves, I would too. But that can be fixed and that trainer gal knows it. But he still won’t top 4K or so. IMO.

Let me add, a quick trick to estimate height is to stand right at the horses shoulder and look over his withers. Can you see over them? If not, where are they in relation to the top of your head? Assuming you know about how tall you are in inches , you can guesstimate how many inches tall the horse is at the withers and divide by 4. Thafs how many hands he is approx.

I see many so called 16 hand horses I can see over the withers standing next to. I’m 5’4" at the top of my head, 64". Divided by 4 that’s 16h. So if I can see over, they are not 16h. More like 15.2. You have no idea how many horses I wasted hours to look at and how I felt. That would be very disappointed at best. Casts shade on other claims and ruins trust. Don’t do that to any prospective buyers. As least ballpark it and state that it’s an estimate in the ad. Better yet, find somebody with a stick and measure him.