how much would this cost?

[ElementFarm]

My heart mare, well-bred, fancy WB, did not catch this year. She’s older (17) and had one foal in 2016 with no complications, and caught on the first try.

We tried twice this year, with good repro vets. Semen quality was excellent, timing was good, but just no luck.
I am probably just going to use a different mare next year, as I really like the stallion and have another mare that would cross well with him.

But I’m devastated to not get another foal out of my favorite performance mare. So, if I had money to throw at this, what am I looking at?
Can they extract eggs, fertilize via IVF and insert in either recip mare or back in mine? How much $$$ am I looking at for this, and what clinics have good luck/experience? Is my mare’s age enough of a problem that it wouldn’t be worth it?

Thanks!

[SnicklefritzG]

Send me a PM and I can pass along the SBS rate sheet. that will give you a rough idea of the costs if you go through a clinic or repro center.

[kaya842]

IVF is the same as ICSI or no? I may also be looking at doing something similar either an embryo transfer or harvest eggs, ICSI/ IVF, and put the resulting embryo into a recipient mare.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

@kaya842

IVF is the same as ICSI or no? I may also be looking at doing something similar either an embryo transfer or harvest eggs, ICSI/ IVF, and put the resulting embryo into a recipient mare.

This is my non-scientific explanation.
ICSI (intracytoplasmic sperm injection) is where the exact sperm is selected that is inserted into the egg. ICSI is often needed for males with low sperm count, poor morphology or motility, etc. IVF (in vitro fertilization) can be done with ICSI or completed where they basically dump some of the cleaned sperm on top of the egg in a petri dish and then the sperm try to inseminate on their own. IVF is just the process of retrieving eggs (typically following a drug protocol to produce more than normal in a cycle), inseminating them and either transferring fresh or frozen/thawed embryos into the recipient.

I wish I knew less about this. eye roll I’d have a really nice new barn by now.

[ElementFarm]

to follow up for posterity…
The nearest clinic that offers the full range of reproductive options is Equine Medical Centers in MO.

ICSI: the clinic will “aspirate oocytes” mature and then fertilize them and monitor the growing embryo. This can then be frozen and shipped later, or implanted in a recip mare. They said it takes an average of 3 cycles to get a viable embryo (~6 weeks). They do have a large herd of recipient mares. Based on rough numbers, I’d be looking at $9-12K, including lease fee for recip mare, not including back/forth transportation of either donor or recip mare. That does not include stud fee.
There is the chance of multiple viable embryos, meaning one could potentially (by leasing two recip mares) have multiple offspring off the cross.

Their website is very informative and does break out costs. I spoke with “Patty” who was very knowledgeable and friendly and willing to explain the process to me. It sounds like a great option for difficult mares, if one has the resources. I need to go buy lottery tickets.

[Marshfield]

I know it’s not the question you asked, but since we know that fertility issues in the older mare are often due to declining egg quality, as long as her uterine biopsy is good, I would consider using her as a recipient mare for yourself

[BeeHoney]

You can try to do anything you want…but breeding is so chancy to begin with, I don’t think anyone could in good conscience recommend that you spend a lot of $$$ trying to get a foal out of an older mare with fertility issues. While you are trying to get a mare pregnant or do ET (to produce a foal that may or may not prove to be a useful, competitive animal) you could easily spend in excess of what you would spend to simply BUY a live, healthy, gorgeous weanling with excellent bloodlines. I see a lot of people choosing to do ET for sentimental reasons, but realistically it isn’t worth it unless the mare is truly exceptional. If you have an exceptional performance mare, I understand the pull to do ET, because a lot of people do not put enough emphasis on mare quality when they breed. So I respect wanting to breed a very nice performance mare, even if you have to do ET. Yet, IME, the best performance mares are often always the best broodmares. I think some of that is because we wait too long to breed our performance mares, and mares often have their best foals when they are younger.

That having been said, I don’t think that failing to conceive over the course of two cycles necessarily means that she has fertility issues. If she were my mare, I would consider trying next year with a different stallion. Make sure to prioritize fertility and a flexible collection schedule when choosing. Perhaps consider a stallion with less expensive collection costs. If your mare doesn’t get in foal, have a backup mare available and make sure the stallion owner is amenable to that.

[ElementFarm]

Thanks Bee Honey. I do appreciate everyone’s comments. I would say the mare is exceptional (though I know I’m not objective, lol) She’s very well bred herself, premium at her foal inspection. High Scoring non-Hanoverian at her mare inspection, proven performance at 3’3 and 3’6 at rated shows and conformationally correct with a good brain – heck, I’d clone her if I had that kind of money)

that being said, I am not opposed to using the Stallion I’ve paid for on a different mare next year, but I would also be willing to buy a purpose bred WB from an established US breeder.

The expensive part of the endeavor for me is the Breeding Package with the local repro vet. It costs me almost $1K every attempt with them. Stallion collection is a drop in the bucket compared to that.
Interesting thought to try a different stallion with her. What I would love to do is find someone on the eastcoast that does a WB live-cover, since I know some mares just don’t like AI. However, I couldn’t find any on my internet search.

Marshfield: I did ask the MO clinic about using her as a recip mare, and they recommended against it. I can’t remember why.