How quickly can you ruin a horse?

We all know that a horse can ‘go downhill’ very quickly, the nicely trained horse being bought by a heavy handed unsympathetic rider can very quickly go sour.

I saw today someone arguing that a world class dressage horse could be ruined for life, by one bad ride, even one bad transition. That top class jumpers may never be the same if another rider got on and gave them a bad ride.

No one in their right mind is ever going to let me near anything world class, and I’m lucky my horse is forgiving of my deficiencies…

For those of you who ride better horses, can you really do this much damage

“In a Grand Prix dressage horse, if you make mistakes ONCE in say, the tempe changes, that may very well be IT. That horse may NEVER be reliable in those tempe changes in competition or schooling, again. Ever.”

"In dressage, one of the most difficult things possible is to maintain the training of a ‘fully trained horse’. No matter what it’s been taught, it still has to be ridden correctly every single minute. "

Every ride, you are either training or untraining your horse. Does it matter? Depends on your goals. If you’re just having, it doesn’t matter.

For an UL dressage horse, this is a huge deal. The horse won’t be “ruined”, but it will take some doing to get all the buttons back where they belong.

Can’t edit. Should be, “if you’re just having fun”.

That is nonsense. If the horse is trained correctly and knows its job it will not be perturbed by some simple mistakes. Obviously or no one would be able to ride at that level at all because we all make mistakes.

That sounds like something a high school kid with no experience would say tbh.

I can understand one bad ride meaning many good rides re instating the buttons, I’m just wondering if you can truly ruin a horse for life in one ride?

I don’t buy it. To me, if that statement were true, then riding a schoolmaster would be useless as they’d be ‘ruined’ by having lesser riders ride them.

I used to ride a horse that was also ridden in lessons by less skilled riders. Could I feel a difference after they had ridden her with less accurate aids and fewer demands? Absolutely. Did it mean I might have to be a bit more aggressive warming up to sharpen her to aids? Definitely. But was she ruined, no. And she is FAR less forgiving than most horses.

If I rode Valegro one day and then Charlotte hopped on the next, I have no doubts he’d still be able to perform at world class level. Even with world class riders riding extremely well bred horses, I can’t believe that some little mistake is not made somewhere during that horse’s training. And they still go on to reach the highest levels.

A jumper, yes, with a crash you can make one into a stopper with just one bad ride.

But the horse’s personality is part of the story. Some horses know how to ‘take a joke’ and save themselves and their rider. Some do not, especially not younger horses. And not “any” bad ride or every bad ride is likely to wreck a horse, but IMHO it’s certainly possible for one bad ride to damage a horse’s boldness and trust significantly, to the point that you might not get it back.

An example from eventing: we expect horses to go through and jump in to water. They trust that the water will be shallow and safe. If you were to jump into deep water unexpectedly, and the horse falls, of course that horse is not going to want to jump into any water again. That one ride rattled what the horse knew about water and his universe and what was safe.

A driving horse wrecking with the cart can make it extremely difficult to safely drive again.

It depends on the horse and how bad of a bad ride.

Yes, depending on how forgiving a horse is one bad ride can ruin it… Maybe not one bad ride but its can go very fast down hill. A GP dressage horse is very fine tuned… if its treated wrong, it will not do what to do…
Just imagine a simple canter aid… A well trained horse will depart into canter with a little turn of your hip… What is the horse supposed to think when somebody is awkwardly trying to get it into canter and then maybe even try to stop it if it doesn’t work out how it is supposed to???

Imo, the only way to ruin a dressage horse in one ride is to ride with actual malice, ie to abuse it so severely that it is permanently traumatized about being ridden, period. (A jumper I think you could ruin by crashing it through a jump and scaring it.)

But, one wrong transition or bad ride or whatever? Please. I hate this dressage terrorism. Horses go like they are ridden. If they are consistently ridden well, they will go well.

There is that one horse that goes for the Russians that is some cremello orlov trotter or something which has been to the olympics and I think was even in medal contention the time before last…? It has gotten 10s in international competition for its piaffe. The Russians saw it going in a police parade and bought it from the police.

So, perhaps the police didn’t always do the perfect half halts to ready it for the Olympics back when it was three and learning how to be a police horse, but somehow it muddles through.

Just watch the pentathalon riders in the olympics, riding borrowed horses. Were all the horses ruined for life? Really doubt it, or they could never get another horse loaned for the event.

I think it’s absolutely POSSIBLE to totally ruin a horse in just one ride–like the cart horse having a wreck or the jumper being crashed through fences–but a horse being “ruined” by some minor miscues? NAHHHHHHHH.

I can imagine a really brutal ride by a bad trainer on a young horse, making long-standing problems. Also a bad fall jumping or a wreck driving, as others have said. Or a spook into traffic or other trauma.

I can also imagine owning a well trained horse and saying exactly what the OP reports, as a way of keeping all the fools who wanted to “see what it’s like” off his back.

But I expect that the experience of riding that horse, for someone who didn’t know what they were doing, would just be weird. They would probably find the horse too hot or forward, and then they’d get freaked by lateral movements they didn’t understand. Or they would just walk around on a loose rein, terrified.

It is true that a horse has to be ridden correctly every single minute, or else it’s training and attitude suffer. That is true of every horse. Now “correctly” can include a relaxed walk on the buckle. It can include a trail ride. But you still want to have everything correct.

As far as making “one mistake ever” in a move, that would depend, I think. If you made a mistake and the horse couldn’t read your cue, and didn’t do the move, that’s a fail but maybe no real impact. If this made the horse confused and angry, that’s more of a problem. And if you reacted harshly, hauled on the face, tried to force the horse into a move, and it blew up, that’s going to be more of a problem.

Since I’ve started trick and clicker training, I’ve seen how fast a horse can learn something and how long it can remember, and how hard it can be to undo something! I’m talking mostly about little things, like if I rewarded her for something on the trail, she will stop and look at me expecting a treat at the exact same place every day for a week or two. But also bigger things; if we have a fight at a particular place in the arena one day, she will balk there the next day for sure.

So if I had a highly trained horse that was on a performance schedule, no way would I let other folks ride. Indeed, even with my moderately trained horse, I am very careful who rides her. I’ve let complete beginners ride her in lessons with my coach or on a leadline with me. But I’ve only actually ever let one intermediate rider take her out alone, and only after I was sure said rider wasn’t doing anything that would upset the horse. Rider didn’t even try to get our more advanced stuff (collected trot, lateral moves), but was correct in what she did ask for and wasn’t harming the training. Someone who hung on the reins or bounced in the saddle would have really messed maresy up.

So extrapolating from that, I’d say the Grand Prix owner is right to err on the side of caution.

[QUOTE=KBC;9042672]
I can understand one bad ride meaning many good rides re instating the buttons, I’m just wondering if you can truly ruin a horse for life in one ride?[/QUOTE]

I mean, I’ve seen people take an honest jumper and either pull them up before a fence or pull them out in front of a fence for some dubious training purpose that, after a session or so, ruins them for honest jumping.

[QUOTE=Simkie;9042716]
I think it’s absolutely POSSIBLE to totally ruin a horse in just one ride–like the cart horse having a wreck or the jumper being crashed through fences–but a horse being “ruined” by some minor miscues? NAHHHHHHHH.[/QUOTE]

Agree. A bad wreck can ruin horse AND rider/driver, no question.

But no human rides correctly every single minute so the perfectionist attitude isn’t helpful in the dressage arena, imo.

It very much depends on the horse. Some have a hug sense of humour, almost malicious. If not asked correctly to do something, you can either get ‘nada’, or exactly what you asked for, not what you thought you were asking for. :smiley:

Other horses have a huge melt down. And it does take an educated rider to soothe them out of it.

It also depends on how completely awful the rider is. Some are outrageously so.:eek:

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;9042701]
Imo, the only way to ruin a dressage horse in one ride is to ride with actual malice, ie to abuse it so severely that it is permanently traumatized about being ridden, period. (A jumper I think you could ruin by crashing it through a jump and scaring it.)

But, one wrong transition or bad ride or whatever? Please. I hate this dressage terrorism. Horses go like they are ridden. If they are consistently ridden well, they will go well.

There is that one horse that goes for the Russians that is some cremello orlov trotter or something which has been to the olympics and I think was even in medal contention the time before last…? It has gotten 10s in international competition for its piaffe. The Russians saw it going in a police parade and bought it from the police.

So, perhaps the police didn’t always do the perfect half halts to ready it for the Olympics back when it was three and learning how to be a police horse, but somehow it muddles through.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I had a QH who naturally did easy changes when I went to look at him. The people I bought him from decided to work on changes because they were so impressed he could do them, and it took months to get him to relax in changes because they got him so worked up about it. But it wasn’t permanently ruined, and if he already knew them it wouldn’t have been the same problem.

I suspect after being manhandled over advanced cross country jumps before I got him, my gelding will never be ok about anything he thinks may result in cross country schooling again. To him, it was abuse - to my mom’s mare, it probably would have just been treatment she didn’t like and was over with her next flake of hay.

Actually truly ruining a horse is HARD to do unless you are abusive or have a physical trauma like some of the examples given, and definitely depends on personality.

Not high level experience -
I have always been generous with my horses , I think. I have loaned them for
for Pony Clubs many times when there have been International or National competitions and the kids did not bring their own horses. So the horses were away from home for about five or six days. Each and every time I got back on, the horse was exactly the same for me as they were before. Obviously, they were well taken care of and never intentionally roughed up or anything nasty.

Like so many other things in life, “it depends.”

Most folks take at least of few weeks to really do in a good horse and turn it into a snide but there are some experts out there than can do it in a few minutes. ;(

Never saw anybody do it to a “flat work” horse in one movement. Saw one try and do it in one ride the owner intervened and prevented the bad result. Good on the owner for that.

G.

What can be easily broken is trust.

If the rider isn’t fair, it can indeed “break” a horse in a second.
It can take some time to bring this horse to trust a rider again.