How tight is your girth?

[Cat_Tap]

My horse is quite rotund even though he wears a muzzle. I have to adjust the girth several times before I get on. I lunge first because he has a habit of peeing and pooing when we enter the arena. I tighten the girth gradually after some lunging.

I spent a fortune on a new saddle and Fairfax girth as he is hard to fit. His girth groove is far forward but the saddle needs to sit back.

Though his trot has improved significantly with the new saddle I still have some difficulty with the canter transition. Yesterday i used the whip for the transition to which he replied by throwing his but up in the air. The saddle tipped forward and I ended up on his shoulders. Fortunately he didn’t try to dump me and I managed to get off.

Do you think I need to dismount to tighten the girth again before cantering as I cannot do it from above. Or do I need to get the saddle fitter back which I really don’t want to do.

[no.stirrups]

I’d be interested in seeing pictures of the saddle.

Sometimes even a well-fitted saddle can slide forward if the horse hollows his back and acts silly. A healthy correct back is a pre-requisite to good saddle fit.

And that slippage is not something that can be corrected by making the girth tighter, in fact over-tightening could make the horse unhappy enough to increase the resistance that is causing the problem.

[Goforward]

I’d get the saddle fitter out.
Also, if he’s peeing before you ride, make sure his saddle doesn’t sit on his loins AT ALL. Urinating pre-ride is a big sign that the saddle is too long. He’ll pee to relieve the pressure on his kidneys. When the horse canters, he tries to get the saddle off his loins by popping his butt up. That shoves the saddle up on his shoulders.
Here’s a link talking about saddle length. (I don’t know this person) Not all saddle fitters are well educated in anatomy. Many are company reps more than true saddle fitters.
http://www.saddlefit101.com/Saddlefit-is-my-saddle-too-long.html

[Manni01]

If the saddle tipps forward when he is lifting his bud, something is definitely wrong… I really feel with you your horse sounds like my horse. She had a custom saddle and several other saddles and still everybody is telling me that the saddle is too much forward.
She is a little cold backed and blows up like a balloon when I tack her up. So for the first 20 min I am busy trying to tie the girth to prevent the saddle from going to much forward.
If the saddle is not fitting right I end up behind her ears. It seems like she has no neck and I did have a judge telling me that she would do so much better with a different saddle…

I admit I gave up. She is 17 now and I tried all her life to find the right saddle. Now she goes with a devoucoux milady (customized for her daughter who is built similar) and a cheap plain wintec girth with a sheepskin cover. It works… not perfect but it works.

So I would recommend devoucoux saddles also which I thought helped a lot were string girths… I think they tend not to go forward. But you can also use them with saddles with short billets…

Good luck

[Scribbler]

Did the horse “lift his butt” in the sense of just “propping” his back legs and going a bit hollow, or did he actually buck?

A good buck can throw a saddle onto the horse’s withers, even if the saddle is a decent fit.

[merrygoround]

In this case, no matter how tight the girth is, if the saddle is slipping forward no amount of tightening will help. some horses just need endless saddle fitting trials to get one that stays put and is not running up on the shoulders. Some owners will even hear the suggestion of a crupper.

[RedHorses]

I have a difficult to fit horse with well sprung ribs, a forward girth groove and a short back. Oh, and a hair trigger bucking fit if the saddle moves forward.

I use all of the following tricks:

A non slip pad on the horse.
A non slip pad between saddle and pad.
An offset girth, lined with neoprene (Total Saddle Fit StretchTec girth).
A professionally fit short saddle with a point billet (it was new, so I had it rechecked and adjusted after four months, which allowed me to stop using wither shims).
Crossed billets (the point billet buckles on the back buckle of the girth, and the back billet crosses over to the front girth buckle).
And yes, a crupper. The crupper is usually loose, but he can still shift the saddle forward if he gets humping his back so I use it as my safety device to prevent him humping the saddle into the bucking fit trigger zone.

I also have to girth up slowly. I mount with the girth two holes looser than my final snugness. He bloats a bit when I tighten it so I walk out of the barn four holes loose, tighten one, walk a bit more and tighten one more right before leading him to the mounting block. His bloating means I can mount from the block safely. This results in daylight between horse and girth after we have walked for a bit. I tighten it a hole on each side before trotting, or after a brief trot.

The neoprene lined girth made a big difference.

[Cat_Tap]

To answer a few questions. This is the first time the saddle slipped forward. He bucked in protest to the whip. His bucks are mainly throwing his hind end up, he doesn’t fold in the middle like one of my other horses was able to do. He does have a strong hind end as I have witnessed those bucks when I let him loose in the arena in the winter when the footing is bad outside.

My previous saddle a Passier PSL was too long for him. I spent an arm and a leg for this new custom Equipe from Italy. The fitter described him as being round barreled with a flat top and a very forward girth groove.

The peeing has become a habit and has nothing to do with the saddle. He pees as soon as he is in the arena even when I don’t put a saddle on him.

I have a feeling that I will probably have to get off after our warm up to tighten the girth a bit more before cantering.

[FEIwannabe]

No recommendations on the saddle.
But mine used to pee in the ring when I first got him. I would lunge him first, and he’d pee on the lunge. But he grew out of it after a few months.

[Bogey2]

The fitter described him as being round barreled with a flat top and a very forward girth groove.

a really tough fit…try a crupper. If you can’t find one right away use a polo wrap. My niece had a tough fit like this years ago, a mare.

[theresak]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8923801]
I have a feeling that I will probably have to get off after our warm up to tighten the girth a bit more before cantering.[/QUOTE]

Can’t you tighten the girth from the saddle? Maybe have someone on the ground hold him the first few times you try…

[Cat_Tap]

Can’t manage it from above. Could with a regular girth but not the dressage length. I always ride alone so can’t get any help.

[theresak]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8925130]
Can’t manage it from above. Could with a regular girth but not the dressage length. I always ride alone so can’t get any help.[/QUOTE]

I’m 5’2" and can tighten the girth on my 17.2h horse from the saddle - I’m almost hanging upside down but I can do it. Maybe try a longer girth (longer girth helps keep my saddle behind the shoulders anyway) and park him in the corner of the arena while you try it so he’s facing the wall and not tempted to wander.

[Cat_Tap]

Can’t use a longer girth, it would be too long for this saddle. I am 72 years old and not as agile as I used to be but I will give it a try next time I ride him.

I appreciate the suggestions.

[GallopHer]

I’m curious to know. How tight are most of you tightening your girth? I buckle mine as tight as physically possible. I’ve been concerned that it is too tight.

How do you determine how tight is tight enough?

[rosegold]

[QUOTE=GallopHer;8926316]
I’m curious to know. How tight are most of you tightening your girth? I buckle mine as tight as physically possible. I’ve been concerned that it is too tight.

How do you determine how tight is tight enough?[/QUOTE]

No comments on the saddle fitting issue, but I never tighten my girth “as tight as physically possible.” I’ve always felt like that was just asking for trouble, comparable maybe to wearing shoes laced on too tightly or something. I like my girth about one hole below the “I’m using all my physical strength to buckle it at this hole” hole, and then I check it again from the saddle after a couple minutes of warm-up to account for any bloating, etc. If the perfect spot ever seems to be in between holes, I always err on the side of girthing a hair too loose rather than too tightly.

[luvmyhackney]

I always make sure I can fit a hand in my ponies girth. I would use a crupper, I’ve had good luck with tacky pads for sliding issues on the round ones as well.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=Goforward;8922749]
I’d get the saddle fitter out.
Also, if he’s peeing before you ride, make sure his saddle doesn’t sit on his loins AT ALL. Urinating pre-ride is a big sign that the saddle is too long. He’ll pee to relieve the pressure on his kidneys. [/QUOTE]

This is and old wives’ tale, and doesn’t even make sense to old wives.

First, the kidneys have no role in the act of urination. They are involved in the process of FILLING the bladder. But they have NO involvement in the act of EMPTYING the bladder. If there WERE pressure on the kidneys, emptying the bladder would have no effect.

Second, the kidneys are isolated/protected by many layers of muscle, fat, etc. Sitting on the horse’s back (whether front of back) does NOT put pressure on the kidneys.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=GallopHer;8926316]
I’m curious to know. How tight are most of you tightening your girth? I buckle mine as tight as physically possible. I’ve been concerned that it is too tight.

How do you determine how tight is tight enough?[/QUOTE]

I tighten it enough that the saddle doesn’t shift sideways when I mount from a mounting block, and that it doesn’t shift back <forward> when I go up <down> a steep hill. No tighter than that.

I actually find it EASIER to tighten the girth on my dressage saddle than on my jumping saddle.

Start with the exercise where you reach down and touch your toes while you are riding. Then just hold that position while you reach with your hand to tighten the girth.

[no.stirrups]

Does your Equipe have a hoop tree? I’m not familiar with the brand, but from your description of the horse he needs one. Not having the right tree shape will encourage slippage.

As for tightness of the girth, you absolutely do not want to tighten as much as physically possible as you can damage your horses pectoral muscles or bruise his sternum. Just tighten it to snug, and check at the bottom of his barrel rather than at the side as that is where it will be the tightest.