How tight is your noseband?

[netg]

[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8897241]

He also likes to really chomp the bit when he is anxious or distracted, and this is loose enough that he can do that (much more dramatic than typical chewing). Frankly, if this is how he wants to express himself, I’d rather allow it than shut it down and force him to find some other way to express himself.[/QUOTE]

My mare does this as well. We ensure the noseband (do use a flash, don’t have to unbuckle to get it on and off because it is so loose) is loose so she can chomp or grind. It is sometimes a product of thinking hard as she is learning something new, but often just frustration. Therefore, I WANT to know it is happening, not stop it artificially, so I can stop it by fixing the problem causing it.

[see_u_at_x]

I, too, love my crank noseband for the padding it offers and for the fact that I find it easier to buckle than a regular cavesson. As for the flash attachment, I’ve never used it on him. Under saddle, his mouth is really quiet and we haven’t needed it for any reason. However, the reason mentioned earlier about using it so he doesn’t eat the reins might be a good one! :lol: And no, I don’t do it tightly. I was actually praised recently for having a correctly adjusted bridle by someone who spent a lot of time in Germany at Dr. Rehbein’s barn, which was a terrific compliment to receive.

[Reynard]

It should never be more than two-finger tight. As others have said, it is a shame that a padded noseband is named a crank because of the less than positive connotation associated with its abuse.

Over tightening can lead to long term problems in the mouth when soft flesh is forced against the teeth and held there - it is always worth having the inside of the mouth checked thoroughly rather than just having a quick squint at teeth.

As well as tightness, the positioning of the noseband on the face is also important.

Also, always remember to check that wrinkles are smoothed out when using a flash, and that no hairs are trapped anywhere. It can be easy to over tighten unintentionally. If a horse can still accept a sugar lump or mint, then the flash is correctly fitted.

[eternalbeginner]

My bridles are mostly cranks, because of the padding and also because they became fashionable and it was difficult to find one without the crank. But then, I never tighten them too much. Neither do I tighten the flash. Of course they have their place and use but I always try to imagine that I am wearing them around my arm or leg and then start running for about an hour!!! Surely if they are very tightly fitted they must do some kind of harm and you don’t need even to be a scientist to figure that out.

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8897211]

Have seen clinicians go up to a horse and tighten them, tho.[/QUOTE]

My former trainer became my former trainer because, among other things, she kept insisting that we keep tightening my horse’s noseband. I use a Micklem bridle and when I had to have the off side strap repaired for the second time (started to separate from noseband) I knew we had a problem. I mean seriously, how tight are you cranking this, if it’s actually pulling the stitching lose?!

First time, I thought well, I’ve had it quite awhile, wear and tear and all that. Next time, a couple of months later . . . :eek:

[BatCoach]

[QUOTE=flyracing;8897240]
Yep, clinician (after complementing horse’s quiet mouth during the ride), says at the end of the ride that I must tighten the nose band and flash when she checks my bridle. I was also chastised for using a French link loose ring snaffle as that is such a harsh bit (I thought it was a kind bit). Some times you just can’t win with people.[/QUOTE]

did the clinician think it was a Dr. Bristol?

[Scribbler]

I leave the noseband off the bridle unless we are appearing somewhere that a noseband is required. Then I would have it loose. Horse does not behave any differently with no noseband, or a very loose one. I rode Western in my youth, and Western bridles typically don’t have nosebands. I still prefer the look of a face with no noseband.

IME, lots of people these days are assuming very tight crank plus very tight flash is normal, necessary, or correct. I’m not sure how I’d get a horse to relax and give the jaw if the straps were that tight. Also, I think some of the concern about “poll pressure” that is leading to people wanting padded poll straps or novelty designs in headstalls, must be due to the fact that the noseband and flash are so tight that they are putting pressure on the rest of the bridle.

I don’t think that there is appreciable pressure on the poll with a snaffle and no noseband.

[Dutchmare433]

My personal horse goes as many above have described, at least 2 fingers between bridge of his nose and the noseband. It is very cushy leather and is a crank noseband, again used only for the cushy padding underneath. Not that he necessarily needs the cushy padding…the noseband is quite loose. He is very quite with is mouth, always closed unless he’s licking and chewing or yawning.

I’ve had a few clinicians compliment me on my loose noseband, a few not mention it, and a few who have been very upset when I won’t crank it tighter. I’ve never taken a second lesson from the 3rd group.

I have a few client horses that I’m gradually working the clients up to loosening the nosebands.

[Cat_Tap]

I am glad about all the responses. My last trainer who I otherwise liked always insisted on tightening the noseband. I am going to have her back once my horse is fitter but this time I will insist that the noseband stays where I like it. Snug, but room for a couple of fingers.

I know we should do what the trainer says but sometimes we know better what works for our horses.

[Hayburner]

I purchased a new nicely padded
bridle on-line thinking it was a regular flash, turns out it’s a crank. I do plan on keeping it loose.

I have been told by not keeping a noseband tight it’s actually more severe on the horse. Since I’m fairly new to dressage, my hands aren’t perfect, but I try to be very soft.

Is there an ounce of truth in what I was told?

[Silverbridge]

[QUOTE=Hayburner;8897969]

I have been told by not keeping a noseband tight it’s actually more severe on the horse…
Is there an ounce of truth in what I was told?[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if “severe” is the best adjective but if it’s too loose and the bit is floating or moving around too much in some way, then you can be giving the horse a kind of mixed message.

Your profile indicates you are in PA and so, there are many trainers probably within a few hours drive of you or closer, who have ridden horses to the top levels competently and kindly and correctly.

Much better to have someone knowledgable, in person, show you where your noseband is most effective. Or to suggest another product. Online, with virtual strangers and virtual experts, it’s not so easy to garner a consensus. And things vary so much horse to horse and rider to rider, that consensus doesn’t equal correct.

I think a lot of times we amateurs and newbies are too intimidated to ask these kind of things in a lesson, when really, it’s exactly the kind of thing we ought to be bringing up.

[Kyrabee]

I do my daily work without one. I have a mare that is very fleshy inside her mouth. Typical cavessons, with any tightness at all just pushes all that mouth flab into her teeth which results in more issues. Neither the horse sized or Cob sized Micklem fits her right. My drop doesn’t fit her right so for now, daily work is with no nose band. IF I ever get my health issues resolved and we can return to the show ring, I will look at some of the newer cavessons (PS of Sweden, Antares).

I believe there was a study in Equus a couple months ago where they worked horses in cavessons with 3 levels of adjustment. They worked each group and did blood draws to measure stress hormones. Surprise…the horses adjusted the tightest had real elevations in stress hormones. Sorry, I don’t have that issue anymore but the tightest group also had some behaviors post ride that took quite awhile to abate.

Susan

[Foxtrot_s]

We had a jump trainer once who would always jack up the cheek pieces to raise the bit in our horse’s mouth “for control”. I’d always drop it back down to his comfort level, and next lesson it got jacked back up - until we quit. It became a battle of wills and seemed no point spending any more money in that direction.

I go to an instructor to learn but need to have a high level of respect for that knowledge and trainer.

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8897204]
Frankly, I doubt that anyone who cranks the noseband very tight is going to admit it here. It breaks my heart to see at shows how tightly some nosebands/flashes are cranked. Poor horses.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly. I can think of maybe 3 people that I know in real life who don’t crank their nose bands and flashes way down. But everyone on here keeps their nose bands loose, or doesn’t use one at all? Yeah, okay.

I use a drop noseband. I don’t tighten it much because when my horse relaxes his jaw, his mouth is slightly agape. If I tightened it as much as I could, it would not function the way that it was supposed to. And usually our drop noseband prompts compliments and discussions about why it is so hard to find a decent bridle WITH a dropped noseband.

[Foxtail]

[QUOTE=Hayburner;8897969]
I purchased a new nicely padded
bridle on-line thinking it was a regular flash, turns out it’s a crank. I do plan on keeping it loose.

I have been told by not keeping a noseband tight it’s actually more severe on the horse. Since I’m fairly new to dressage, my hands aren’t perfect, but I try to be very soft.

Is there an ounce of truth in what I was told?[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure how a loose noseband could be more severe than one that’s tight. One of the first things I do if I’m working with a nervy horse is loosen up the noseband, or remove it entirely. I can count on one hand the number of horses I’ve come across who were bothered by a super loose noseband. That wasn’t because it was more severe; they were just fussy. Aside from the potential for injuring the inside of the horse’s mouth, the shape of a horse’s head will cause an overly tight noseband to attempt to slip down the horse’s face, causing poll pressure. 9 times out of 10, a loose noseband is kinder. The other time? Well, there’s always that one oddball horse who goes against the grain and likes a tighter noseband.

[Boo]

Plain cavesson noseband here too with 2 fingers space (or light all way round). The only reason i use it is purely asthetic…she looks really odd without one ??

[Bem55]

Another one who uses cranks - I love the padding, I think they are much nicer and also more comfortable for the horse. Fit it so it sits securely - not too tight and not so loose that it flaps around, probably two fingers but I have never really tested. I go with what the horse is happy with. One of mine prefers it looser - maybe 3 fingers and the other prefers a slightly more snug fit. Same with flashes, one hates them so never use it, another likes it as it helps keep things secure, and the other likes it but only done up loosely.

[skipollo]

Loose enough that he can eat grass or treats.

The regular noseband part I could get four fingers underneath easily. It’s snug enough that it’s not flopping around, but I can still see some daylight around it. The flash part is pretty loose (truthfully it’s also a little big for his nose and I haven’t punched holes in it.) I could fit my hand underneath if I wanted. The worst thing he does is flap his top lip/nose up. He rarely opens his mouth (and even if he did, I’m not going to crank it shut.)

I jump him in a figure 8 at shows. It’s just a little tighter than his dressage bridle. But as you can see, it’s still loose enough that he can open his mouth a bit. I’d rather his jaw be mobile.

[CFFarm]

Like everything with horses, it depends. I took the flash off my bridle years ago for this particular horse and lowered the cheek straps so he can “hold” the bit. This horse can go in a halter and string.

I was taught like a lot of old timers to have two or three “wrinkles” at the corners of the mouth and slip two fingers under the noseband. To some that’s two fingers beside each other and to others one on top of each other.

On other horses I’ve used figure eights, cranks or drops. With a double, nose band and curb chain (so much equipment for that sensitive face)…

I always go back to the old adage: As little as possible but as much as necessary.

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8897723]
I know we should do what the trainer says but sometimes we know better what works for our horses.[/QUOTE]

Amen!
Nobody knows your horse like you do.

[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8898009]Online, with virtual strangers and virtual experts, it’s not so easy to garner a consensus. And things vary so much horse to horse and rider to rider, that consensus doesn’t equal correct.

I think a lot of times we amateurs and newbies are too intimidated to ask these kind of things in a lesson, when really, it’s exactly the kind of thing we ought to be bringing up.[/QUOTE]

:yes:
If you don’t have the kind of Trainer/Client relationship that makes this possible, time to look for a different Pro.

[QUOTE=CFFarm;8898165]Like everything with horses, it depends.
I always go back to the old adage: As little as possible but as much as necessary.[/QUOTE]
^
Again, Amen!