How tight is your noseband?

[LilyandBaron]

Good for OP for knowing that we, as horse owners, can tell trainers “No” in the interest of the horse. I respect trainers and their amazing knowledge, but ultimately, I’m choosing to pay them for services, and I’m the customer. I no longer work with trainers that don’t accept my views on nosebands, or other matters of horse welfare. I’ve literally said to trainers in response to advice to tighten the noseband that I like to allow them to tell me if my hands/riding are good or bad. If my horse is fussy, let’s work on fixing my riding (barring medical issue like teeth), not masking it with a tight noseband!

I have found with trainers that telling them I want to learn how to train my horse to be better, not win ribbons, helps us work together better. I’ve not had a falling out with any trainer over my views/desires - they may secretly think I’m a wimp/bleeding heart for my horses, but we still have productive lessons.

[Engage]

My boy needs a slightly snugger noseband when he has his softer bit on, as he is a big horse and can get very strong. In his jumping bit which is his stronger bit, he has a flash on, but it’s loose enough that he can open his mouth reasonably wide.

In his dressage bit, his flash/noseband is slightly tighter but by half a hole. It is still loose enough for two fingers. We tried a lot of different combinations and he seems to prefer the slightly snugger (but still loose enough) noseband and softer bit.

[Posting_Trot]

Equus magazine recently published (September 2016) a short article on how tightening a crank noseband induced stress in a group of test horses, as compared to horses wearing the same noseband but with it either completely unbuckled, or buckled but “un-cranked.”

They tested for stress using the horse’s heartbeat and respiration, and horses wearing a cranked crank exhibited stress while those with more loosely buckled ones did not exhibit stress.

[SuzieQNutter]

Another who is riding 3 horses without a noseband. If I have to put one on it will be very loose.

[kashmere]

Another one with no noseband for regular work. She’s just happier. I’ve figured out how to adjust a noseband so it is tolerable for her - quite high up on her nose and tight enough not to flop around but loose enough not to restrict her jaw - but she’s definitely more relaxed if we just leave one off altogether.

I’m fine with a coach or a clinician asking about why, or suggesting ways to make a noseband work. I would not have a whole lot of respect for the suggestion that we need the noseband no matter what. I also certainly would not react well to anyone just tightening it.

[SuzieQNutter]

I had a heifer that would not move forward in the race. I opened the race and left her… but watching… the bull came up the race so facing her. Then backed out and she followed him.

[PiaffeN_Passage]

I’ve been riding my third level horse with no noseband for a few months now. At this point I don’t think a noseband really even does much!

[Personal_Champ]

My noseband is just tight enough to keep it from flapping around or sticking out away from the face. My mare doesn’t need, nor does she like, a tight noseband.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Posting Trot;8898272]
Equus magazine recently published (September 2016) a short article on how tightening a crank noseband induced stress in a group of test horses, as compared to horses wearing the same noseband but with it either completely unbuckled, or buckled but “un-cranked.”

They tested for stress using the horse’s heartbeat and respiration, and horses wearing a cranked crank exhibited stress while those with more loosely buckled ones did not exhibit stress.[/QUOTE]

That study was not a valid study unfortunately! They introduced a whole new stress factor into the study, not only were the horses put in crank nosebands, they were put in a double bridle for the first time for the study. So we don’t know if the discomfort was related to a overly tight noseband OR suddenly having two bits in the mouth. Someone needs to do a valid study, using a control group and a tested group of horses, and using a single factor change - the tightness of the noseband.

If you think 2 bits doesn’t cause some concern with a horse, then you haven’t introduced too many horses to the double - it can take a while before a horse is comfortable with all that extra metal in their mouth!

I’m not arguing that a tight noseband doesn’t bother horses, I’m arguing that a study that throws in TWO new factors, and blames distress on one of them is not valid.

Someone needs to get 20 horses in a crank noseband that is cranked, 20 horses in a regular noseband tightened as tight as possible, 20 in a crank not tightened so much, 20 in a regular noseband not tightened so much, and 20 horses with no noseband, all in the same bits, and the study when the horses show distress. And this should be without a flash, without other equipment being used.

[Posting_Trot]

I get what you’re saying, but all horses were put in a double bridle, and then for some horses the noseband was cranked, while for others it was not. So all horses exhibited some stress related to the double, but the horses with the cranked noseband exhibited higher degrees of stress.

The article of the full study is here:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0154179

[HorseKrazy]

For those that like a crank style noseband because of the padding it offers, couldn’t you easily buy one of these bridle additions?

http://www.doversaddlery.com/t/kathy-connelly-oval-chin-pad/p/X1-0845/

[netg]

[QUOTE=HorseKrazy;8901624]
For those that like a crank style noseband because of the padding it offers, couldn’t you easily buy one of these bridle additions?

http://www.doversaddlery.com/t/kathy-connelly-oval-chin-pad/p/X1-0845/[/QUOTE]

That only works with a crank. :lol:

[Libby2563]

[QUOTE=HorseKrazy;8901624]
For those that like a crank style noseband because of the padding it offers, couldn’t you easily buy one of these bridle additions?

http://www.doversaddlery.com/t/kathy-connelly-oval-chin-pad/p/X1-0845/[/QUOTE]

IMO, chin pads are a hassle compared to built-in padding because they fall off and get dirty/lost. Especially if people other than me are sometimes riding my horse (lessees, trainers, barn friends), I prefer everything to be in one piece and as simple to keep track of as possible.

Although that said, neither of my horses have a crank at the moment. But when I have had them, I don’t make it any tighter than a regular noseband, which is to say loose enough for 2 fingers side by side. Just because you CAN crank it doesn’t mean you HAVE to. It could be better named though.

As an aside, it’s odd that you used that pad as an example since it says it’s designed to be used with crank nosebands. But I get your general point.

[2tempe]

How tight is my horse’s noseband - apparently not even buckled when I took him out for a light hack yesterday. Was all the way on the back of the farm, trotting around when I noticed a piece of leather flapping around his muzzle. I’m guessing I didn’t get the little pointy thing in the hole so it just came undone. Horsey didn’t seem to care so we continued our plan and all was well.

[HorseKrazy]

That pad style was the very first one I came upon, I do realize it is for a crank. I still believe padded nose ands can be found with out a crank though. I have a Vespucci jumper bridle that has a floating type pad on the underside of the noseband-like a crank pad without the crank… I will see if I can find a good example. Either way, with a drank it can be very easy to over tighten unintentionally

editted to ad link

http://www.kieffer.net/files/kieffer/produkte/zaeume/trensen/3117-stephanie-ii/3117-stephanie-ii-chrom-3.jpg

[MaritimeH_J]

[QUOTE=HorseKrazy;8902879]
That pad style was the very first one I came upon, I do realize it is for a crank. I still believe padded nose ands can be found with out a crank though. I have a Vespucci jumper bridle that has a floating type pad on the underside of the noseband-like a crank pad without the crank… I will see if I can find a good example. Either way, with a drank it can be very easy to over tighten unintentionally

editted to ad link

http://www.kieffer.net/files/kieffer/produkte/zaeume/trensen/3117-stephanie-ii/3117-stephanie-ii-chrom-3.jpg[/QUOTE]

See, what I don’t like about that one is where the buckle sits - and with the crank style you can slide the buckle so that it sits in spot where it isn’t directly on a bone or pressure point. I don’t ‘crank’ em closed either, but I do like the style better for that reason.

I’ve tried all kinds of combinations this summer as my mare had to have a tooth removed. In the end she went better without a noseband or with it on as loose as I could do it up, after we persisted through a few bouts of her saying 'hey, awesome, look what I can do!..oh, oops" puts tongue over bit, then melts down because it’s uncomfortable. Once we got that figured out, she was great without.

I also found a black sheepskin chin pad that has black elastic to hold it on - BR makes them. Love it. No more lost padding.

[iridescent]

Mine is really loose, just enough to keep my horse from opening her mouth wide enough to suck in the bit ring! (Which she will do when she’s standing around and starts playing.) Definitely more than 2 fingers of room. I used to ride without one until the bit ring thing first happened!

[iridescent]

Yeah you don’t have to crank it tight… used to exercise a horse than had a crank on his bridle; I always left it with plenty of room and it was fine.

[TaraB_Connected_Ride]

Have you considered trying a Micklem bridle?

While I’m not a fan of trends, the amazing results I’ve gotten with my extremely tense over the top line OTTB, and also the amount of happy Micklem users I’ve spoken to at shows, has really convinced me! They even have a bling version!

Best pricing at The Connected Rider. http://www.theconnectedrider.com/?tap_a=9643-134fe7&tap_s=54629-678c64?

[Xanthoria]

[QUOTE=CFFarm;8898165]

I was taught like a lot of old timers to have two or three “wrinkles” at the corners of the mouth and slip two fingers under the noseband. To some that’s two fingers beside each other and to others one on top of each other.[/QUOTE]

Times they are a-changing. Used to be two fingers stacked on top of the nasal bone. Now it’s slide a couple in the side where the face is concave and it’s fine…

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?491265-How-you-measure-noseband-tightness