and weed out the "mane clingers’, beginners, people afraid to canter, people afraid of horses etc? I am not a horse dealer, I will not sell a nice, sane horse to someone like this, it is not fair to the horse. There are plenty of people happy to sell them a horse.
I have a nice sensible but I consider green (needs more outings, etc) horse SOLID training level. So he has some desirable qualities that most want. But, without putting red flags in the ads like “needs experienced rider, needs confident rider”, etc how can I word it?
This is in the ad but people over represent their ability or are not reading the ad. I asked one person to send me a video of them riding w/t/c after listening to them.
Any ideas?
Could you put in the ad the horse is sensible but green and needs more miles and confident training. I would think this would weed out riders who have fear issues. Not to start an argument, if a seller asked me to send a video, this would put me off. I would not take the time to make a video. I would give the seller the name & phone# of my trainer for an honest opinion. Good luck finding the right home.
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You are right, I think I am trying too much to prevent them wasting THEIR time. Had someone recently drive 8 hours round trip who was supposed to be a Training Level-ish rider. Wore a air bag safety vest and wanted to be hand walked around the arena like a pony ride. I feel sorry people who have PTSD or serious fear issues, but have no idea why they are driving to look at a green horse. My poor horse actually took care of them but in reality, they need a lesson horse or another way to get their confidence.
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Having been in the situation of (unknowingly) looking at horses FAR above my skill level, I can tell you what I would have appreciated and actually understood concise explanations. Vagueries like “experienced rider” are far too subjective.
I think a seller should should write their ad as best they can for their intended audience. The key to weeding out inquiries is the follow up. I know I could have saved myself some time had sellers told me things like;
“this horse is completely spur trained. If you aren’t familiar with a spur-trained horse, this will be be a different ride”
“this horse relies completely on body positions/leg pressure. If you aren’t familiar with riding in this manner, you might not like his/her ride”
“I have not put small/young/teen children on this horse and cannot vouch for his response”
“if you aren’t actively taking lessons and working with a trainer I’m not interested in selling my horse to you. At any price.”
point being, advertise your horse by their qualities. And narrow the inquiries down based on the considerations of your animal that would not (otherwise) be described in the ad.
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“good minded but in need of more miles under competent riders - not suitable for someone who does not w/t/c confidently without direction” might be some verbiage to consider.
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Venturing over from H/J land, so I won’t have all the verbiage correct, but one of the top rules of marketing is to always keep it positive. Avoid negative words like “but”, “won’t”, “doesn’t”, etc.
For example, rather than say the green horse “needs” an experienced rider, you might say “this fancy boy would thrive in a program with an experienced rider”
Or, you might say, “This talented green prospect would be an ideal partner for…” and then describe the person you see as being a perfect match.
If you are concerned that the people that are contacting you are over-representing their abilities, be prepared to ask them some questions, such as who they train with, how often they ride, how long they have been riding, have they owned a horse before, have they competed before, have they trained green horses before, etc. Ask them if their trainer will be accompanying them on the appointment, etc. There is SO much you can learn in a telephone interview if you just know the right questions to ask.
Draw up a list of questions to ask potential buyers and keep it handy so you can easily refer to it. If a buyer comes out and sits on the horse and it is a total miss-match, do a post mortem and ask yourself what questions you could have asked during the telephone interview that would have helped you weed out that particular unsuitable buyer and add those questions to your list.
Identifying suitable matches and unsuitable matches is a learning process. The more you practice, the better you’ll become.
Best of luck!!
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Why not simply say he is a lovely sensible type who is going Training, best for a more experienced rider as he is still quite green? I would imagine that would put the fearful/novice types off without dissuading the more competent types.
Most, if not all, training level riders are not competent enough to train a sensitive greeny in my humble opinion.
The air-vest wouldn’t have bothered me at all because you can never know what kind of crazy horse people are trying to sell, but I would have asked to ride it first.
But in this case, I’m not sure I would have had ponied this rider around. Not sure s/he would have been allowed to even get on if I felt s/he was scared since the horse wasn’t meant as a bombproof/beginner rider at all. It could have been dangerous.
I’ve refused possible buyers the « right » to try horses they came to see I was mandated to sell. If I felt it wasn’t a right match and were not at all what they told they were… I couldn’t take the risk of an accident, neither for the rider nor the horse.
Like OneTwoMany said: Questions are the answer.
When I put my Paso Fino up for sale i explained that he was green and needed an experienced rider with quiet hands and legs. The people who came to try him took experienced to mean “experience owning horses”. They had little to no formal lessons. The guy was like “how do you get him to turn?” His reins were about a mile too long. He needed a beginner safe horse, not a green broke 5 yr old who had only been under saddle a few months! I put down that he was not very spooky and somehow they thought that not spooky means beginner safe?
I decided i would sell him this fall if you know anyone looking for a nice trail horse. If i do end up selling him it needs to be the right person. He is a hot, forward moving horse, but i like him because he isn’t very spooky at all. I actually feel very safe on him because he isn’t prone to jumping around, and most of my other horses are more reactive. He does feel like riding a stick of dynamite, as he hasn’t learned to relax- we are working on it. He needs lots of transition work. I think he is doing very nicely. I’m not sure i really want to sell him.
I think asking people for a video of their riding is an excellent idea.
Good suggestions for wording the ad. Try to have a telephone chat first. Have a few questions that would only make sense to a rider of your target level.
That said, you will never weed out all the fools and time wasters and liars. Think in terms of not wasting your own time. If they choose to waste their own time, that’s their lookout, and perhaps they will learn from it.
I don’t understand why you are so dismissive of fearful riders. Soomebody who is already fearful is going to be absolutely THE MOST fearful when trying a strange horse in a strange location.
I was selling a sweet, safe QH and a woman came who was already scared because she had crossed train tracks three miles away on the way to the farm and she was worried the noode would spook him.
She watched him go and then DID require a pony rode arojnd the arena to get comfortable.
However, I was nice to this person, and knew it was a kind horse, so I set her up progressively for success and she became more and more confident as the ride went one. She was grinning by the end.
On another day, she came back with her trainer (yes, she was working with a trainer!), and she ended up leasing the horse for two years. The horse was adored and well cared for during this time, and he helped her really enjoy riding again.
I don’t understand the dismissive and nasty attitude to amateurs who cant show up at a strange barn and ride a new horse like they’ve known it its whole life. Just give them a second to get used to your horse and feel good about thenselves rather than makong abundanntly clear you don’t find them worthy of your horse, and if they are working with a trainer anyway you don’t need to micromanage the horse for his next owner.
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I feel sorry for people like this, they need to ride in a lesson program or lease a babysitter type to get their confidence. However, as the owner of the horse I am obligated to find the best match for him, not run a therapy program for people who are not realistic. What can a fearful, tentative beginner afraid to canter who will keep the horse at home with no trainer offer to a young, green, lacking in experience OTTB? What is the best for the horse?
The OP is selling a green sensitive horse.
Most posters talked about green horses.
Would you have put your nervous beginner lady or a nervous/hot/sensitive green horse? I wouldn’t.
And you leased the horse, not sold it. If anything had happened, you would have had your horse back.
We are talking here about buyers who are not a great match for the horse they want to try.
It has nothing, nothing, to do with being dismissive and nasty to amateurs.
A lady I leased my older gelding to, bless his heart, wanted to buy and train herself a youngster.
She was, at times, unable to canter with my truly bombproof 24yrs old arthritic gelding…
She was taking lessons elsewhere on schoolhorses and thought she was a 3rd level rider because the horse she occasionnaly rode was trained up to there. She was using my old gelding as a « practice horse » between her lessons. Let me just tell you that my older really enjoyed his 30 minutes shuffling trot sessions with her where she thought she was practicing all the lateral moves while in reality, she was just going crooked at a slow pace.
Would you have sold her a green hot youngster?
She could talk some of the talk… but was scared to death to take the walk.
I appreciate all the responses very much! I got a lot out of it and some excellent ideas for wording, etc. Thanks for reading and posting!
She didn’t say “green but sensitive.”
She also did not say “nervous/hot/sensitive.”
Nor did she say “green hot youngster.”
She said nice, sane, SENSIBLE, but she would consider it green. “Hot” “nervous”, “sensitive”, and “youngster” did not come up AT ALL, so I’m not sure what description you are reading to do your usual critical reply of whatever I post.
There are plenty of trail horses that have never gone up the levels in hunters or dressage who are nice, sane, and sensible but would be considered green by a hunter or dressage specialist. In fact, a great many of those horses would not be “SOLID” in all capital letters at training level. A lot of their riders who enjoy them but have not gone up the levels in formal training would be considered beginners by discipline specialists.
If you want make some sort of critique of practically everything I post on this board, by all means feel free, but at the very least dont high handedly demand to know of I woud sell someone “green hot youngster” when a nice, sane, sensible horse of unspecified ages but with a SOLID training level base is being discussed. I would not sell whatever horse you’re thinking of, but yep, the second option seems fine. And, seriously alibi, would you sell an 8yo a 17.2h 3 year old stallion from the Riverman line??!! Or was that not what was being discussed either?
OP, if you only want to sell to someone with a trainer, put “Suitable for an amateur with a trainer” and don’t schedule an appointment until you’ve talked suitability with said trainer.
Voila, screening process and no more yahoos.
But I don’t think someone needs to have a trainer, be particularly brave, or want to canter every ride to provide a good home to and enjoy a “nice, sane, sensible, well behaved horse” with a “SOLID training level” foundation.
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Word your add truthfully and have a phone or message (via FB, WhatsApp, etc.) conversation before the person shows up. Typically you can gauge from conversation if what the buyer is looking for matches what you’re selling. I know there are some delusional individuals out there, but sometimes you just get that, no matter how hard you try.
You can definitely add something along the lines of “suitable for an amateur with a trainer” as mentioned above.
Or “Horse is sensible, but still green. Would benefit from consistent riding in a program under the guidance of a professional/trainer. Feel free to have your trainer contact me directly.”
It’s kind of a crapshoot. You can minimize the risk of having an unsuitable rider show up, but horse sales can get whack. I think there are many threads on COTH about this that give us a giggle or groan. you may end up with some wasted time, but you’re doing right by the horse by prioritizing a good match between rider and horse.
So I would really try to open up a dialogue with the potential buyer and go with your best judgement.
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Thanks for this.
I know few riders, experienced or not, who hop right on a strange horse without some consideration or without asking owner to get on first.
The way this horse is described is exactly the kind I would be looking for if I were in the market, and I think I offer a super, loyal home. Don’t underestimate the relationship that can be built with a solid, sensible horse with a rider with some fear issues.
BTW OP, come on now. People afraid to canter a new horse the first time on don’t need a therapy program, lol!! They need a solid citizen, like you state you have. I think you’re missing a potential solid market here. You got some great suggestions for wording above; perhaps stating you “feel sorry for” fearful riders isn’t the best choice ;). As for not being fair to the horse, I don’t think mine has had one complaint in 6 and a half years. I appreciate meup’s words and can think of MANY other “types” of riders who would be much less desirable.
You said that your “poor horse” took care of a rider who had to be ponied…and that he took care of her… sounds like a real gem whose sensitivity extends to understanding his job. Why does that make him a “poor horse?” Totally not getting this here.
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Yeah… this works only if the Trainer is a good/competent one.
Had a friend selling a green horse get visited by a Buyer with “Trainer” in tow - the alleged-Pro got on first & was so loose in the tack Friend declined to sell them the horse.
If the Trainer can’t ride, how valuable is their assessment of the student’s ability?
OP: I don’t think you can reliably weed out the Looky Lous or riders (or even “Pros”) with over-inflated ideas of their ability.
Good Luck
I say “poor horse” because what happens when the fantasy world hits reality and he is a real horse? He puts his head up to look at something, maybe comes out more forward one day, etc? How will this rider sit on a green horse and improve him and give HIM confidence? He is not a babysitter or a packer nor would anyone think that from his ad. Now for a TB his temperament is a 10 which is a big positive. But it is unfair to put him in a situation where the wheels will come off at some stage. All horses deteriorate to the level of the rider. Good thing there are a ton of horse dealers and sellers who do not care about the horse, just making a sale so she will find a horse from someone. The last 2 horses this buyer bought ended badly, so maybe she does not make the best decisions…
And she did come with her trainer who told me this person was a “solid” rider who was capable of getting on and riding confidently. This was not the case.
I think I need to ask more specific questions after the initial contact for sure.
Thanks!
There have been some very interesting discussions presented here… As mentioned above, I do think being able to outline in clear language what type of buyer you’re looking for (“Should be able to w/t/c independently” “suitable for confident amateur with professional guidance,” etc) is more helpful than “needs (intermediate/experienced/etc) rider” - we’ve all run into people who like to talk up their experience level only to actually see them ride and find the disparity between their presentation and the reality!
That said (and this is less specific to the OP - sorry for the tangent, though perhaps still useful) this came to mind: I think many sellers have a specific type of buyer in mind without regard for if the horse they’re selling is of interest to that target market. You can have the nicest, sweetest, correctly started green horse in the world but the likelihood of getting an excellent pro ride (or highly skilled/show home/ambitious amateur) isn’t high unless the horse has the skill/talent/a good prospect for moving up levels in the discipline of interest.
Being realistic about the market the horse can attract is a great way to set all parties up for success. From there, phrase an ad to outline what the seller’s vision of an ideal home is, inside the boundaries of that realistic market. “I’m selling a super cute QH sporthorse, dressage prospect!” and expecting a Laura Graves to buy it isn’t realistic. “I’m selling a super cute QH sporthorse dressage prospect who would excel with an amateur rider under professional guidance - is correctly started but still green so regular rider should be able to confidently navigate inexperienced horse questions.”
The amateur market is vast, but not monolithic. There’s a wide range of skills, goals, and aptitudes Identifying what part of the market the horse appeals to, and then figuring out what part of that subset is the ideal home can help a seller phrase their ad to directly appeal to them.
