How to assemble a pack string?

[Rancher]

I might be totally on the wrong BB here, but I figure I would give it a shot. Is there anyone on here who has had to pony more than one horse, and how did you do it? I am thinking more specifically of pack horses. Like what do you do if you have two (or more) pack horses? I worked at a guest ranch doing pack trips. They had a rule that for the most part it was one guide per packhorse. So if you had 10 guests going on a trip and you needed three packhorses for all their gear, that meant you had to have 3 guides go with them. Now, the tricky part came when we had to get off and walk downhill on steep parts. Depending on who the lead guide was…sometimes we would tail tie our pack horse to our saddle horse’s tail and sometimes we would just push a loop of lead rope through the ring on our cinch. If the horse pulled back it was loose though. For some reason NONE of the pack horses were content to follow. If they got away they would either just stand there looking dumb until someone went back and fetched them or make a break for it and start grazing (if they were not wearing a nose cup).

There were also situations where it was necessary to tail tie a whole bunch of them. Never more than 5 in a string…but it made me nervous as heck leading a horse with 4 horses tied together in a row behind them. At least we all carried knives. We would do that when taking them all a few miles away from camp for grazing. The horses were all used to it…and we only had a small wreck once. Thank goodness the tree was old and dead and the horses that wrapped around it managed to just pull it down. :eek: We were ONLY 50 miles from the nearest road and YES I was having a fit. But it was part of the job.

Now…here is MY problem. I am breaking all my horses to pack and I am very interested in going on some overnight (possibly week long) pack trips with friends. I am wondering what I would do if I ever had to lead more than one packhorse and have my horses NOT get away. Pretty much all my books on packing just show how to tail tie! Umm…is that even acceptable practice anymore?? I can’t even imagine how a person would train a horse to do that without having a rodeo. I just can’t picture myself EVER tying one of my horses to another ones tail. That sounds kinda suicidal actually. I also am not interested in tying the second horse to any part of the pack on the first horse, obviously. So I am I just screwed here? Doomed to only have one pack horse? Is there a good way of doing it that I am missing?

[katarine]

I only know what we’ve done with our friends that pack into the mountains. One rider leading three horses.

#1 make sure any horse you’re going to pack, leads well and ties well. They should lead off only the slightest notion on your part of ‘giddyup’ if they are lazy starters/prone to being piggy, fix that. if they even remotely consider fighting being tied, sitting back, etc- fix that. they should know to move out in unison with the horse they are being ponied from…verbal cues, please. and they should stand tied all day if need be.

#2 take a doubled piece of nylon baling twine and tie it in a loop around one of your lead pack horse’s pack hitch ropes, up high on top of his croup- tie second horse’s lead rope to that loop. lead first pack horse off at a slow pace, verbally cueing horse #2 to come on up, too. I like the verbal cues to help #2 horse from dozing off by #1’s side, then being surprised when the string starts again. The twine will break easily under strain but if you’re careful and lucky they won’t learn to lean on it and break it. You really can’t just thread their lead through the pack on the horse in front- just normal going down the trail’s going to work that arrangement loose, and a bunch of purty grass is going to undo it all together.

#3 put the laziest horse first so you can better egg them on to pay attention and come on…

[lizathenag]

we used pack horses to get salt up into the mountains. They weren’t led, they just followed along. . .

[katarine]

ahh- but that won’t work if you suspect you’ll meet others on the trail, or encounter lush bear meadows where yon pack horses will stop and eat…even one loose packer will hang back then charge to catch up- bouncing the snot out of his load, bonking into trees with it, etc…we dared trying to let the mule trail us part of last summer’s trip and he took delight in charging down the meadows and slamming into the (led) pack horse. Nope, not always ok.

[Rancher]

[QUOTE=katarine;3080076]
I only know what we’ve done with our friends that pack into the mountains. One rider leading three horses.

#1 make sure any horse you’re going to pack, leads well and ties well. They should lead off only the slightest notion on your part of ‘giddyup’ if they are lazy starters/prone to being piggy, fix that. if they even remotely consider fighting being tied, sitting back, etc- fix that. they should know to move out in unison with the horse they are being ponied from…verbal cues, please. and they should stand tied all day if need be.

#2 take a doubled piece of nylon baling twine and tie it in a loop around one of your lead pack horse’s pack hitch ropes, up high on top of his croup- tie second horse’s lead rope to that loop. lead first pack horse off at a slow pace, verbally cueing horse #2 to come on up, too. I like the verbal cues to help #2 horse from dozing off by #1’s side, then being surprised when the string starts again. The twine will break easily under strain but if you’re careful and lucky they won’t learn to lean on it and break it. You really can’t just thread their lead through the pack on the horse in front- just normal going down the trail’s going to work that arrangement loose, and a bunch of purty grass is going to undo it all together.

#3 put the laziest horse first so you can better egg them on to pay attention and come on…[/QUOTE]

Thank you!! I always tie my horses with unbreakable halters and unbreakable leads to unmoving solid objects (at wither height). I always have. They ALL can and will stand tied all day and no one bothers to pull back or act silly because they have never gotten any benefit from it. Not one of my horses has ever pulled back and gotten away.

I have lead some pretty lazy horses. We used to joke that they were like leading a dead body. A few ALWAYS had to have someone behind them shouting at them. During my advanced schooling we had a horse out that was VERY green and didn’t lead well at all. She would baulk at logs, water, rocks…everything. My one and only job was to get right on her arse and scream at her the whole time. We also had poking sticks to help get her through stuff. Not the greatest plan in the world, but after a week she was like any other pro packhorse.

Where I worked we just to just shout “Wake up! Let’s go!” to signal that we were going to be moving. We would also get the rider behind them to shout at them. Making sure everyone moves on a verbal cue is a very good idea though!

Thanks for the idea about the twine and where to place it! That is exactly what I was looking for.

[Rancher]

[QUOTE=katarine;3081535]
ahh- but that won’t work if you suspect you’ll meet others on the trail, or encounter lush bear meadows where yon pack horses will stop and eat…even one loose packer will hang back then charge to catch up- bouncing the snot out of his load, bonking into trees with it, etc…we dared trying to let the mule trail us part of last summer’s trip and he took delight in charging down the meadows and slamming into the (led) pack horse. Nope, not always ok.[/QUOTE]

And NOT okay with guests or many other riders. Very very bad to have a packhorse bash a riders legs as it runs by. That can give you a broken knee. When a packhorse would accidentally get away we had to shout “Loose horse!” so that all the riders/guests would know to watch their legs. Our panniers were very hard plastic and weighed up to 70lbs each. Thank goodness I never got one in the leg.

Did your packhorses not have nose cups? Ours did so they couldn’t graze. It was especially important because about 25% of the horses there were belgian or belgian cross. When they got hungry they would just leave. No hanging onto them! With a nose cup they were at least sort of manageable. Although many did learn how to stick a lip out the hole and grab tall grass.

Eggs + trotting = guests not getting eggs for breakfast! lol! Made that mistake once. I trotted to catch up…whops! That was my first trip out and I learned my lesson.

[katarine]

http://www.amazon.com/Packin-Mules-Horses-Smoke-Elser/dp/0878421270

great book if you don’t have it.

No, they don’t own any nose cups- this isn’t a commercial deal they are just real MT peeps with regular gear. The only draft cross gets led up first. He’s a wonderful boy but he does cheat if allowed, I can see your point.

To hell with the eggs, mind the beer

[Rancher]

[QUOTE=katarine;3081624]
http://www.amazon.com/Packin-Mules-Horses-Smoke-Elser/dp/0878421270

great book if you don’t have it.

No, they don’t own any nose cups- this isn’t a commercial deal they are just real MT peeps with regular gear. The only draft cross gets led up first. He’s a wonderful boy but he does cheat if allowed, I can see your point.

To hell with the eggs, mind the beer ;)[/QUOTE]

Nope! I don’t have that one. I have “Horses hitches and rocky trails” and “Horse packing in pictures”. And I also have a video on packing. Forget what it’s called. But I have to add that book to my library!! Thank you!

LOL! I forgot to add…guests alcohol was always packed in grain so it would be safe. One time 5 guests even brought enough for 2 nights that we needed another pack horse!! Man did they get drunk!! But i got a $300 tip for 3 days!

[katarine]

horses hitches and rocky trails is wonderful, just a treasure and I love it… but it’s limited…he doesn’t like mules, eager to tail tie, etc, and it’s a slim little volume. You’ll enjoy Smoke’s book. Good mix of pics, stories, and real deal advice. Like I said my friends have done this forever, really live the western life as much as a short summer will allow, and pack in as many pack trips as they can every year. I loaned her my copy of Smoke’s book…and I didn’t get it back Glowing recommendation right there

[Rancher]

[QUOTE=katarine;3081660]
horses hitches and rocky trails is wonderful, just a treasure and I love it… but it’s limited…he doesn’t like mules, eager to tail tie, etc, and it’s a slim little volume. You’ll enjoy Smoke’s book. Good mix of pics, stories, and real deal advice. Like I said my friends have done this forever, really live the western life as much as a short summer will allow, and pack in as many pack trips as they can every year. I loaned her my copy of Smoke’s book…and I didn’t get it back Glowing recommendation right there :)[/QUOTE]

I actually have 4 copies of the first one. I bought one for myself, my dad bought one for himself (didn’t know I already had one) and then I got one each time I went to guide school. That’s what I meant about tail tying! I didn’t know what else to do!

I WISH I could find someone else that would want to pack with me. I have all the gear and the horses, I just need a few friends that kinda sorta know what they are doing. I would LOVE to haul the horses into the area where I worked. It was about 3700 sq miles of mountains and trails. The mountains were shale and perfect for climbing. Very easy to ride the mountain tops and go right up into the snow in the middle of summer. I know so many of the trails! I could sure show someone a good time if they wanted to come! lol!

[Beverley]

Pretty much what Katarine said- you want the baling twine because, in these parts, if one horse falls off the trail, well, you don’t want the rest to follow.

I don’t know about laziest first, but it’s important to have the more dominant horses up front.

When I read your subject line, I assumed you were thinking about ponying horses as in exercising more than the one you’re riding. I see you meant ‘how to assemble a pack string.’

[Rancher]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3081974]
Pretty much what Katarine said- you want the baling twine because, in these parts, if one horse falls off the trail, well, you don’t want the rest to follow.

I don’t know about laziest first, but it’s important to have the more dominant horses up front.

When I read your subject line, I assumed you were thinking about ponying horses as in exercising more than the one you’re riding. I see you meant ‘how to assemble a pack string.’:)[/QUOTE]

You are right! I should change the subject line I guess! lol! I am such a goof sometimes. Your words are much better! Hope you don’t mind if I steal them.

I have a question…wont the more dominant horse kick the hell out of the lower horse behind? I thought you put the more dominant horse behind because him biting the horse in front is better than him kicking the horse behind…or am I wrong? Not that I think my horses will be kicking and biting, but it happens. Saw enough of that during my employment.

[Beverley]

I’ve not seen kicking- if they’ve been going up the mountain for more than about 30 seconds with a load, they generally know better than to waste that much energy. But if a dominant horse is behind, I’ve seen them chew on tail/nip/be general PITAs- and in my experience you don’t want the string pushing forward to get away from such behavior. If you are using a 15 foot lead rope, they can avoid any threats of kicking.