How to Best Analyze Jumping Technique?

[MustangTwist]

As some of you may know, I’ll be in the market for a jumper prospect sometime next year. I’ve been looking at a ton of postings to familiarize myself with the market before I dive in, which has involved watching numerous jumping videos. Since I’m looking for a young horse, many of these videos include free jumping.

I’ve been riding a while and am familiar with “what looks right” vs. “what looks wrong” in a general sense (e.g., doesn’t hang knees, clears the jump without too much strain, lands balanced and recovers well, etc.), but given my situation I would like to develop a more informed and critical eye when it comes to analyzing jumping technique. I would love some resources (articles, videos, etc.) and advice from the knowledgeable folks on this forum.

What do you look for? What is considered good form? What differentiates an unconventional style from poor technique?

Thank you in advance!

[Sansena]

You say you’re looking for a young horse. Not sure if that means before or after it’s been backed and 90 days put on it, but understand a lot can and will change depending upon the kind of training rides horse receives. In other words, the youngsters you’re watching free jump now can either be improved or ruined by training. Which goes without saying.

I think it’s impossible to differentiate unconventional from poor style. Technically, they’re both the same. And lets’ face it, an ‘unconventional’ style is NOT going to do well in the hunters. Period. Full stop. Jumpers need to jump clean. Correct style helps achieve that but your unconventional horse won’t be shot down so to speak in the Jumpers. Eq horses need to be more even, flatter jumpers so as to not dislodge their equitation mannequins perched upon their backs.

I could spend my time trying to find resources for you with respect to your specific questions but I"m going to instead let you do the hunt… Google terms like ‘jump bascule’ for a start.

At its most basic description, you want a horse who’s jump effort is even across the obstacle. That’s bascule. You want the horse’s body to create an arch as it were from take off to landing and lightly cantering away. Horse shouldn’t spring up vertically and land in a heap.

Horse should be free in his shoulders (which is why so many dislike ‘straight’ shoulders), and inso being, be able to move his forelegs well up in front of him. His forelegs need to be well above the horizontal at the height of his effort, knees tucked together tightly under his chin. Neck and chin stretched down as horse starts to descend in his bascule. His back should be round longitudinally and straight laterally. No twisting is considered ‘poor form’ or ‘unconventional’.

Horse should have the intuition to know to depart the ground well enough back from the obstacle to allow himself room to get his forearms up/ out in front of him. Horses that habitually get in too close wrap jumps with their knees. Horses that leave wa-a-ay too soon will catch hind legs.

Again, all of this can be improved, likely as much as 75% or more, with good rides and training. I’d be more concerned with conformation limiting good jumping rather than just seeing what a few jumps in a shoot on video look like.

I like short backed, slope shouldered, deep & straight hocked horses. With this as a foundation you can’t go too wrong.

[Dutchmare433]

Look at KWPN linear score sheets, they break it down to every little piece. If you PM me I can send you my horse’s Keuring video and his linear score sheet to compare if you would like.

[Scribbler]

I feel like every single sales photo or video of horses jumping under 3 feet shows a horse hanging it’s knees. I have yet to see a local ad of a lower level horse that had anything like tucked knees.

Is this because the horse doesn’t make that much effort at 2 foot 9? Is it rider error, wrong distance?

I’m thinking of photos that do manage to capture that suspended moment when the knees should be tucked.

[findeight]

They do better with fences that aren’t, basically, lope overs. Only at 3’ do they even have all 4 feet off the ground at the same time and they sure don’t need to curl to get over, especially not the bigger horses where 3’ doesn’t even get to their chest standing next to it.

One reason Hunter show fences are so stuffed with decoration, brush and boxes is to get a bigger, more attractive jump out of the horse without raising the height. It invites them to reach, fold those knees up and try a little harder, I always look at what they are jumping to decide if it’s bad form over a stuffed, ramped oxer or or they just are stepping over a spindly post and rail schooling fence that probably lacks a ground line.

But beware the excuse horse just needs a bigger fence. Sometimes they are just built with shoulder and hip conformation that doesn’t allow them to fold those knees up, power off and tuck the hinds over. Pictures can’t tell you that.

Honestly think some sellers are blind by looking at the sale pics they choose to put up. Either that or they honestly think the horse is a good jumper and just don’t know. Sale picture should be the best the horse can be.

[vineyridge]

If you’re looking for jumpers, hind end technique can be the difference between a rail and a clear. I have thoughts on this, but am not sure if the young, free jumping horses have been poled or somehow trained to produce the extravagant use of their hindquarters at the end of the jump.

[pony_grandma]

Two pts I want to add.

When I watch free jump videos I look for a horse that draws it’s shoulders up into its withers. They should not jump over their front end or hang those legs. And look for rotating the leg forward from the shoulder.

And I look for a balanced land and go. No downward pitching and stalling. The land and go indicates a quick back end. Likewise a good rear end tuck.
​​​​​​

[MustangTwist]

@Sansena

You say you’re looking for a young horse. Not sure if that means before or after it’s been backed and 90 days put on it, but understand a lot can and will change depending upon the kind of training rides horse receives. In other words, the youngsters you’re watching free jump now can either be improved or ruined by training. Which goes without saying.

I think it’s impossible to differentiate unconventional from poor style. Technically, they’re both the same. And lets’ face it, an ‘unconventional’ style is NOT going to do well in the hunters. Period. Full stop. Jumpers need to jump clean. Correct style helps achieve that but your unconventional horse won’t be shot down so to speak in the Jumpers. Eq horses need to be more even, flatter jumpers so as to not dislodge their equitation mannequins perched upon their backs.

I could spend my time trying to find resources for you with respect to your specific questions but I"m going to instead let you do the hunt… Google terms like ‘jump bascule’ for a start.

At its most basic description, you want a horse who’s jump effort is even across the obstacle. That’s bascule. You want the horse’s body to create an arch as it were from take off to landing and lightly cantering away. Horse shouldn’t spring up vertically and land in a heap.

Horse should be free in his shoulders (which is why so many dislike ‘straight’ shoulders), and inso being, be able to move his forelegs well up in front of him. His forelegs need to be well above the horizontal at the height of his effort, knees tucked together tightly under his chin. Neck and chin stretched down as horse starts to descend in his bascule. His back should be round longitudinally and straight laterally. No twisting is considered ‘poor form’ or ‘unconventional’.

Horse should have the intuition to know to depart the ground well enough back from the obstacle to allow himself room to get his forearms up/ out in front of him. Horses that habitually get in too close wrap jumps with their knees. Horses that leave wa-a-ay too soon will catch hind legs.

Again, all of this can be improved, likely as much as 75% or more, with good rides and training. I’d be more concerned with conformation limiting good jumping rather than just seeing what a few jumps in a shoot on video look like.

I like short backed, slope shouldered, deep & straight hocked horses. With this as a foundation you can’t go too wrong.

Thanks - this is helpful!

I agree, conformation is super important. It’s also a factor I’ll be weighing heavily.

I’ll primarily be looking at horses between 3 to 6 years old. I’d strongly prefer something backed, but we’ll see what my budget gets me when it comes down to it. Not looking to do the hunters and not looking to do a ton of A circuit showing, but want a horse with good technique and athleticism.

[MustangTwist]

@Dutchmare433

Look at KWPN linear score sheets, they break it down to every little piece. If you PM me I can send you my horse’s Keuring video and his linear score sheet to compare if you would like.

Thank you! This is a great idea.

[MustangTwist]

@Scribbler

I feel like every single sales photo or video of horses jumping under 3 feet shows a horse hanging it’s knees. I have yet to see a local ad of a lower level horse that had anything like tucked knees.

Is this because the horse doesn’t make that much effort at 2 foot 9? Is it rider error, wrong distance?

I’m thinking of photos that do manage to capture that suspended moment when the knees should be tucked.

I agree - even my current horse has much better form at 4’6 than 2’6. It can make it a little hard to gauge what the horse will jump like over bigger stuff, esp. if the ad only has a limited amount of photos or video clips posted.

[MustangTwist]

@findeight

They do better with fences that aren’t, basically, lope overs. Only at 3’ do they even have all 4 feet off the ground at the same time and they sure don’t need to curl to get over, especially not the bigger horses where 3’ doesn’t even get to their chest standing next to it.

One reason Hunter show fences are so stuffed with decoration, brush and boxes is to get a bigger, more attractive jump out of the horse without raising the height. It invites them to reach, fold those knees up and try a little harder, I always look at what they are jumping to decide if it’s bad form over a stuffed, ramped oxer or or they just are stepping over a spindly post and rail schooling fence that probably lacks a ground line.

But beware the excuse horse just needs a bigger fence. Sometimes they are just built with shoulder and hip conformation that doesn’t allow them to fold those knees up, power off and tuck the hinds over. Pictures can’t tell you that.

Honestly think some sellers are blind by looking at the sale pics they choose to put up. Either that or they honestly think the horse is a good jumper and just don’t know. Sale picture should be the best the horse can be.

When evaluating sales horses, what do you do when someone says that a horse “just needs a bigger fence?” Is it appropriate to ask the owner to video it over some bigger fences?

With regard to misguided sales ads, absolutely. I understand that people probably have a biased perception of how amazing/talented/sane their horse is, but people should be more discerning about the photos they include with sales ads. I’m sure there are some decent horses I passed over without another thought because the photos were so unflattering.

Not quite the same problem, but I saw one post recently which described the horse as a top jumper prospect, flashy mover, etc. The owner included 6 photos with the ad. They were all slightly different angles of the horse’s head peeking out of its stall, with a heavy blanket on. No video. Can’t remember if they listed a price or not.

[MustangTwist]

@vineyridge

If you’re looking for jumpers, hind end technique can be the difference between a rail and a clear. I have thoughts on this, but am not sure if the young, free jumping horses have been poled or somehow trained to produce the extravagant use of their hindquarters at the end of the jump.

That’s a great point. How do you know, aside from the reputation of the seller, I suppose?

For example, I was talking to someone in another thread about Harrington Horses based in the UK. I essentially made the point that those horses seemed to be pretty high quality (bloodlines, movement, jumping form, etc.) at fairly affordable prices. This was in response to several people advising me that it was very difficult to find good jumper prospects in UK (even unbacked) at that price point.

Anyway, someone said that if you look at their photos/videos, their horses all tended to go in pinch boots and that you could tell by looking at the way the horses jumped. I’ve been out of the show ring for some years and really didn’t know much about pinch boots, including what they looked like and what impact they had on a horse’s form. Do those horses all go in pinch boots? I have tried to zoom in on the photos and videos and I’m still not totally sure, but anyway, that’s part of what prompted me to start this thread so I could better educate myself.

(I also don’t want to appear like I’m maligning Harrington Horses here - I’ve had 2 friends buy horses from them recently and they’re very happy with their purchases.)

[MustangTwist]

@pony grandma

Two pts I want to add.

When I watch free jump videos I look for a horse that draws it’s shoulders up into its withers. They should not jump over their front end or hang those legs. And look for rotating the leg forward from the shoulder.

And I look for a balanced land and go. No downward pitching and stalling. The land and go indicates a quick back end. Likewise a good rear end tuck.
​​​​​​

Thank you!

[greysfordays]

I’m looking at the Harrington website right now and I’m not seeing the pinch boots. I could be wrong, but those look like standard young horse boots to me. They do sell horses to Europe and it would be pretty bad form to send a young horse into a jump shoot with pinch boots.

As a side note, I just got back from the Longines Masters in Paris and I was thrilled to see that more than half the competitors are in normal back boots. I think this is great for the sport and horse welfare.

From some of the seller contacts I’ve made, I’ve learned to really focus on the hind end when they’re free jumping. They’ve said that Americans focus on the front end and how snappy it is but Europeans will actually prefer a young horse’s hind end to be a bit overpowering the front end. Some will actually make different videos to post in the US vs. Europe where they might pick the footage of the horse jumping super hard behind for European websites and then ones with a better front end for the American FB pages.

I can kind of see why, my horse can jump over his shoulder a bit, but with lots of bounces and exercises, he is jumping much better in front. It’s been relatively easy to address. But behind is pretty hard to fix, the scope is what it is.

[pony_grandma]

@MustangTwist

Thank you!

Ronda lost Cielo B way too soon. There must be frozen still left. He’s still on her Rising Star website. This is a horse who’s video comes to mind. He lands well. It helps make turns faster when they come off the fence balanced and ready. And pitching a rider forward breaks up the connections. Rider has to recover also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=84&v=EtDTBSGS5nc I’ll try to find an example of drawing the shoulder up into the withers.

[MustangTwist]

@greysfordays

I’m looking at the Harrington website right now and I’m not seeing the pinch boots. I could be wrong, but those look like standard young horse boots to me. They do sell horses to Europe and it would be pretty bad form to send a young horse into a jump shoot with pinch boots.

As a side note, I just got back from the Longines Masters in Paris and I was thrilled to see that more than half the competitors are in normal back boots. I think this is great for the sport and horse welfare.

From some of the seller contacts I’ve made, I’ve learned to really focus on the hind end when they’re free jumping. They’ve said that Americans focus on the front end and how snappy it is but Europeans will actually prefer a young horse’s hind end to be a bit overpowering the front end. Some will actually make different videos to post in the US vs. Europe where they might pick the footage of the horse jumping super hard behind for European websites and then ones with a better front end for the American FB pages.

I can kind of see why, my horse can jump over his shoulder a bit, but with lots of bounces and exercises, he is jumping much better in front. It’s been relatively easy to address. But behind is pretty hard to fix, the scope is what it is.

That’s a great perspective, and very relevant since I definitely tend to focus on the horse’s front end when I’m watching it jump.

Regarding Harrington, the commenter said “As someone else pointed out to me, they’re all in pinch boots. Hence the ridiculous hind ends, landing on their faces, and “pronky” canter or even trot away. I’ve never seen them in person but suspect without the boots…?”

Again, I don’t know enough about pinch boots to be able to differentiate them from regular boots in a free jumping video. I know what pinch boots do in theory, but no one in my barn uses them and I’m not sure how to tell if a horse is wearing them. From a distance, do they just look like regular boots? How can you tell?

FWIW I’ve watched a good number of HH videos and I don’t think it’s common for their horses to land on their faces. They do seem to have nice hind ends though!

[MustangTwist]

@pony grandma

Ronda lost Cielo B way too soon. There must be frozen still left. He’s still on her Rising Star website. This is a horse who’s video comes to mind. He lands well. It helps make turns faster when they come off the fence balanced and ready. And pitching a rider forward breaks up the connections. Rider has to recover also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=84&v=EtDTBSGS5nc I’ll try to find an example of drawing the shoulder up into the withers.

Love the example, thank you! What I notice about this horse’s jumping style is that it seems to almost freeze in the air for a second before it arches itself over the fence. Is there a name for that? It still seems to be making it over the fence with room to spare & recovering quickly though.

[pony_grandma]

Cielo was only 6 at the time I only used him as an example of landing. You’re referring to dwell time in the air - that doesn’t help for speed. You also should look for a horse that jumps through their body. It will take me awhile to try to remember another horse that would be a good example of all the parts. Someone asked me once how one develops a good eye and I answered that you need to study one part at a time until your eye can begin to take in more. Like just watching rider’s hands, or lower leg, until you begin to see all the nuances that exist.

[greysfordays]

They look more like these:

https://www.veredususa.com/veredus-pro-jump-rear-ankle-boots-467107

https://www.veredususa.com/veredus-jump/veredus-pro-jump-short-vento-boot-with-velcro-469988

The ones with two straps have a stronger effect than the ones with one strap.

[MustangTwist]

@pony grandma

Cielo was only 6 at the time I only used him as an example of landing. You’re referring to dwell time in the air - that doesn’t help for speed. You also should look for a horse that jumps through their body. It will take me awhile to try to remember another horse that would be a good example of all the parts. Someone asked me once how one develops a good eye and I answered that you need to study one part at a time until your eye can begin to take in more. Like just watching rider’s hands, or lower leg, until you begin to see all the nuances that exist.

It’s wonderful advice to look at one thing at a time until you develop an eye for it - and I am going to practice it! Thank you.