How to find a stock horse for dressage?

[beau159]

@Alterubi

It has been challenging finding a non-downhill AQHA/Paint/Appaloosa that is also over 16hh, and that hasn’t had too much of the WP training. I’ve seen some very cute reiner types that would be great, but they tend to be on the shorter side.

More challenging too because most stock horses aren’t going to be over 16 hands. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist or you can’t find them, but it does make it harder when you are looking for a certain height.

@Alterubi

Any bloodlines to keep an eye out for? Or ones to avoid?

Am I correct to avoid halter bred horses? I’ve recently found one local to me that is young and hasn’t had too much of the wrong kind of training and a cute mover. But I worry about longer term soundness.

I would worry less about bloodlines, and focus more on how the horse is put together and how the horse moves.

ANY horse can have a soundness problem – even ones with perfect functional conformation.

I had a real nice Quarter Horse a couple years ago that I rode for a few months to tune up for my aunt, so she could sell him. While I’m more of a western person myself, I do like to dabble a bit in English. This was him; I thought he was a looker! He had nice conformation (here) and well balanced. His pedigree (here) wasn’t super fancy but I’ve had several Two Eyed Jack horses in the past and they have always been nice horses. Just good foundation-type breeding.

I actually sold him to a client of my English trainer. My trainer had ridden him for her and she just loved him. She thought he had all the different gaits and the suspension needed for dressage. His new owner has since passed away (cancer) but my trainer still has him. And I get to see him from time to time.

He was about 15.2 hands or slightly under.

[beowulf]

@ladyj79

I just bought an appendix a few weeks ago. I was looking at my standard ottbs and young wbs since that’s my budget. But this appendix came on my radar, he is about 75% tb, looks and moves like a hunter, is 16.3 and under saddle at four, and very affordable as something of a hardship sale.

My thing is I don’t care what the breed is, although I care about breeding, but I have pretty fixed criteria that a variety of breeds might potentially meet, and I keep my eyes open. This particular guy I got a line on because last summer the same trainer had a similar horse for sale, we chatted, I didn’t end up with that one but we ended up fb friends and so I always knew what she had coming in for training and for sale.

As with any horse, take your time.

Ooooh! Congrats!! You can’t say you have a new pony without pictures.

I have been thinking that my next project, I’d enjoy branching out - either STB or Appendix… I’ve always loved appendixes, rode a ton in school & college, and haven’t seen many since… Doesn’t seem like they’re very popular here, or I am not looking in the right place. They can surprise you and be really, really nice.

[hoopoe]

I had a ranch bred heavy with Hancock breeding. He was the sweetest, light, compliant horse I ever had .shown to 3rd training Tempe, Piro and half step. He stole heart forever. 15.2 he filled my Leg , I am 5’7"

[Mango20]

Are you dead set on something over 16 hands? You would have so many more horses to choose from if you’d lower your minimum a few inches.

[netg]

It really depends where you live. I’m in QH country, and would reach out to trainers in breed show environments. A stock horse who is supposed to do the pleasure classes but bends his or her knees too much and doesn’t want a low headset is going to be a bargain basement price if that’s the type of the barn it’s in, yet be exactly the type you want. There are a lot of those! Ladyj’s pic is of a nicely built horse. Breed doesn’t matter when you’re looking at conformation, you want that kind of horse whose parts look like they belong on the same horse, and overall harmony in the horse’s body when you look at it. I suspect when her horse moves you also see a nice mover because of that.

I have seen many VERY straight hind legs on quarter horses, and that’s the biggest I’d look out for. Not just a straighter hock as you often see in warmblood jumper lines, but straight through all the joints where folding just is a challenge and they end up with hock problems. I’d stay away from that type, but there are still many who are nice, as ladys is an example.

I also wouldn’t look at only 16+ hands. A quarter horse can take up lots of leg, and many 14.2 reiners hold large men and heavy saddles with no issue.

'My fantasy is to have the time, money and health, to retrain QH rejects from other disciplines and make them packers for amateurs because I just love their temperaments.

[khall]

A blue roan ranch bred is one of my fantasy lists! The only horse that would top that is a blue roan baroque (there is an Italian baroque breed that comes in blue roan!)

[fordtraktor]

I have a 15 hand downhill Stock QH palomino mare and she wears a 54" girth! She is a tank and I look fine despite being 5’10. She is also so easy to train…we are not pure dressage so I haven’t spent all our time on it, but she has leg yield, shoulder in, Haunches in and is working on half pass. She also has decent changes which I installed in a day once her canter felt uphill.

she was a western pleasure horse but not one trained to spur stop. It took a couple of months to get her comfortable with leg and to learn not to throw herself in reverse every time we halted. But she has come so very far in six months, and I enjoy her so much. It is nice to have one I can go jump on bareback without a second thought! And she will happily schlep my kids around safely which is worth its weight in gold.

a stock type with decent conformation and a good temperament can go far and be a lot of fun in the process. I don’t worry too much about being downhill as long as the horse is light/responsive in the bridle and leg. With a little decent work the shape of the horse’s movement and use of its back can change tremendously in just a few months if it is happy in its work.

I got mine out of a field, traded a kids pony for her.

[Dee-Vee]

I have an Appendix mare that is training third level. Found her on the AQHA circuit doing HUS. Her trot was wasted there. She came home with me. She is incredibly well bred top and bottom. For what it is worth, Nijinsky and Secetariat, racing QH on the bottom. All that said, her dam was a high point WP mare and her brother is superior HUS stallion.

Bloodlines are only indicators. She is a very well put together horse with a great mind and sound work ethic. She loves her job doing dressage. Can’t get enough and always wants to learn more. We are working in freestyle and music really is her thing. She loves to dance.

All of that said, there are really two things that matter. First a good horse is a good horse regardless of bloodlines. Look for one that is well put together and doesn’t carry baggage. Secondly is training. I am blessed with a truly great trainer. People ask me all the time if my mare is a warmblood. I bite my tongue as warmbloods aren’t the only breed on face of the earth, but hey. The trick when it comes to re-training a western horse is to undo what has been put on them for the AQHA show circuit. Western show horses are often started young and the training stays with them. I know a stunning Indian Artifacts bred mare who is beautiful to behold until she moves. However what has been put on her cleans up in HUS circuit. Her owners are trying to retrain her for the Hunter circuit and she just does not pin the way the other horses do in the class.

Anyway, look for the best horse you can irrespective of bloodlines and invest in the right training.

[Alterubi]

Love hearing about everyone’s stock horses that are doing well in dressage! Thanks for all the tips on where to look and what to keep in mind. I have to admit, I am leery of having to try and undo any WP training. I think I will be challenged enough with just putting on the dressage training. Finding one with a dressage foundation would be ideal, but I don’t see too many of them advertised.

For those who recommend going the ranch horse route, often they are not registered which often means no genetic testing either. Any concerns on 5 panel status?

@Sancudo

Second an appendix. I bought one online last year, that had done a bit of western and English and trail, but didn’t really have a solid foundation in any one thing (which I saw as a plus!) In a year he’s gone from not really having his leads to now having all of the 3rd level work, picked up changes in a few weeks, super easy lateral work and even has piaffe in hand started. All with me as an ammy doing all the riding and with a handful of lessons over the year. It helps that he’s super sensitive like the TB side, picks thinks up SO quickly. Plus he’s buckskin and 16 hands and moves quite nicely.

I’d like to order one of those too please! :lol:

[joiedevie99]

@Alterubi

For those who recommend going the ranch horse route, often they are not registered which often means no genetic testing either. Any concerns on 5 panel status?

Yes, very much so. You should be running it as part of your prepurchase exam on any horse that doesn’t have documented results.

[endlessclimb]

@redsoxluvr

I have a beautiful gelding by Invitation Only. 17.2H, with really lovely gaits. Sadly, he has crappy little QH feet with a very tall body and a gigantic spook. He has also had some very, very bad training via the AQHA HUS circuit. He is terrified to go forward on his own as someone clearly beat the crap out of him every time he did. He has put me off quarter horses for good, I think. At this point I am thisclose to retiring him at age 10.

FWIW, Invitation Only get are not known for trainability.

[xQHDQ]

Just be careful that the horse wasn’t overworked as a baby. AQHA has lunge line classes for yearlings and the 2-yo futurities. Then as 3-year olds they are shown in every class from WP/HUS to Horsemanship/Equitation to jumping and trail (speaking from experience before I knew better). Those hoses are worked to death for the baby classes so they are nice and quite. Unfortunately, they do NOT stay sound (again, speaking from experience).

[Raleigh_s_Mom]

There are plenty of “ranch” horses out there that are registered if you want to go that route. In the last year, I have switched from reining to western dressage to classical dressage on my cowbred QH. He’s a pretty versatile guy and super easy to train. I have had him since he was two and have done most of the training myself, so he hasn’t been in a super intensive western program. But… I love that he is so “broke”. He’s about 15 hands and I am 5’7". Here’s a pic of us from last year at a show. I think we fit each other well, but I am used to “smaller” horses coming from the stock horse/reining world.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209839863062426&l=bc9d8d5918

[redsoxluvr]

@endlessclimb

FWIW, Invitation Only get are not known for trainability.

Sadly, I have to agree. Never again!

[maybesmom]

2 cents as a warmblood owner: I grew up riding OTTBs and quarter horse TB crosses and they can be fabulous for dressage. I don’t think breeding much matters. It is very helpful if the horse is built with withers higher than croup, since you will work towards an uphill balance in dressage. Also helpful to have a throatlatch that is not too thick to allow flexibility. I would look for good feet (symmetrical) no cow hocks and otherwise correct conformation, but you can find plenty of grade horses like this.

In dressage you will be judged on forwardness, straightness, rhythm, balance, submission, and riders position/effectiveness. There are quarter horses and quarter horse crosses competing through grand prix successfully. A horse that is athletic enough to do cutting or reining work is certainly capable of ticking all of the dressage boxes. And size doesn’t matter either: there are many dressage ponies doing FEI work. So do not hesitate to look at a nice stock horse for dressage.

[Saffron_Rose]

@Raleigh's Mom

There are plenty of “ranch” horses out there that are registered if you want to go that route. In the last year, I have switched from reining to western dressage to classical dressage on my cowbred QH. He’s a pretty versatile guy and super easy to train. I have had him since he was two and have done most of the training myself, so he hasn’t been in a super intensive western program. But… I love that he is so “broke”. He’s about 15 hands and I am 5’7". Here’s a pic of us from last year at a show. I think we fit each other well, but I am used to “smaller” horses coming from the stock horse/reining world.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209839863062426&l=bc9d8d5918

I don’t have much useful to add, but just wanted to say that your horse is beautiful!!

[dynamite0319]

There are def some AQHA bloodlines that are known for better brains than others. If I were you I’d try to find something with some Doc Bar, Two Eyed Jack or some of the older cutting studs in their bloodlines. Peppy San Badgers can be a little spicy. I have a 25yo QH by a son of Doc Bar out of a race bred mare. While he is an Appendix, we went to the youth World Championships in reining when he was 5 and he finished his under saddle career is the BEST fox hunting mount! He could do most of the basic dressage movements with ease. He’s only 15hh, but bc of his build he took up more of my leg than my 16hh TB does. The older cutting/cow horse bloodlines have a more uphill build than today’s horses.
We also got quite a few QHs off the track and had good luck with those horses. Some were more balanced and uphill than others, but I recall one horse my Dad used for ranch work that was very uphill, extremely athletic, and tall. He always looked to me more of a jumping/dressage horse, but my Dad and I couldn’t share horses.
There are a lot of ranch horse sales around where I’m from in Eastern Montana. Cowan has a sale in South Dakota. Billings Livestock has some good sales, too. It is just hard in the US because the country is big!

[exploding_pony]

Kelo needs to chime in here - she knows all the breeding info.

I have a AQHA who I bought as a project horse when my mare was rehabbing. I’m not a QH person, so I will butcher the details but he was bred by Ted Robinson (by a Shining Spark son out of a Nu Cash mare). I’ve had him since he was 4, he’s 12 now.

He’s a lovely horse but quirky. He was bred for the futurity, but luckily for him, he flunked “cow” and went to a dressage sale barn because he is a nice mover. I say luckily because those horses tend to work very hard and have short careers. Looks rather like he’s a swedish warmblood.

He has huge issues with personal space and separation anxiety. As a young horse he used to loose his mind when I was about to start my dressage test and the other horse exited the arena. He can be lovely or explosive away from home, depending on where his mind is on a given day. He can be aggressive to other horses and I make a point of never being in the arena with a stallion.

I adore him but it has not been easy. I’ve given up showing him and at the last away from home clinic I took him to, I never ended up getting on him. We lunged the entire time. Once he is really upset, you need to give it up and start again the next day. Because he will have a temper tantrum that lasts for hours. That said, he can be super fun on a good day.

The second level work is correct but not very competitive. He just can’t really get his hind end underneath himself and stay forward/soft at the same time. I do wonder if some of his very early training has given him some soundness issues - the AQHA folks typically start them very young and work them pretty hard, especially if the horse is bred to do the futurity. It could also just be that his conformation just makes the work hard for him.

He’s fun to jump and ride around the property, as long as I don’t as for too much collection, the dressage is fun too. Again, at home.

I tell you this long tale because I thought it would be an easy project to pick up a AQHA while I was rehabbing my mare. He’s a wonderful horse but it has not been what I would describe as a fun easy project.

The other thing that I will say is that for both my mare and my GRP, the work is easy physically. My AQHA finds the physical work of dressage much harder than the other two.

[Raleigh_s_Mom]

@Saffron_Rose

I don’t have much useful to add, but just wanted to say that your horse is beautiful!!

Thank you! I think so, too, but I am a bit biased. LOL!