How to find a stock horse for dressage?

[Alterubi]

I would really like to find a nice stock breed type as my next horse. I am not going to the Olympics, or GP or even PSG. I just want something with a good brain and a conformation that won’t be working against us for lower level dressage (up to 3rd level).

It has been challenging finding a non-downhill AQHA/Paint/Appaloosa that is also over 16hh, and that hasn’t had too much of the WP training. I’ve seen some very cute reiner types that would be great, but they tend to be on the shorter side.

Any bloodlines to keep an eye out for? Or ones to avoid?

Am I correct to avoid halter bred horses? I’ve recently found one local to me that is young and hasn’t had too much of the wrong kind of training and a cute mover. But I worry about longer term soundness.

[Scribbler]

There is so much variation in Quarter Horses. As far as halter bred, you would need to look at conformation just like any other horse. Does it have post legs, upright pasterns, small feet, and what’s its HYPP status?

Actually what you need is an azteca, a QH cross Andalusian. They come out looking anywhere from a very nice Qh to very Iberian. They are very common in the Western us, cheaper than pure Iberian, and more level-headed. They get gait and uphill from the Andalusian side.

[atlatl]

If you want something on the taller side, you might look for an Appendix quarter horse, or one with a lot of TB otherwise. I had a nice regular book gelding by Dakota Te (many moons ago) that was frequently mistaken for a warmblood. He was a superstar when the ring crew decided to drag the arena literally during our test. I’d do some research to see what’s winning in the all around or hunt seat classes and go from there.

Know however that any QH will likely be more level than uphill. That doesn’t mean they can’t carry weight on the high legs though.

Good Luck!

[RedmondDressage]

Agree with both of the above suggestions. My appendix is the best horse I’ve ever owned and literally anyone could hop on that horse and have a good time. I see a ton of Azteca’s around here (I’m in the PNW), there are usually at least a handful that run through at every auction in this area that you can pick up for a under $1000. More traditional sellers you’ll find them for under $5000 with solid training.

Facebook groups seem to be the easiest way to see a large number of horses. I’d join all of the sales groups in your area and then be patient - something will come along.

[Scribbler]

Appendix can be nice if the parents are nice. Ideally you’d get size and elegance and stamina from the TB and bone and butt and agility and calm from the QH.

But I’ve seen some disappointing ones. QH neck, TB butt, QH orneriness, TB spook.

[RedHorses]

I have a TBxQH cross who is trained to 2nd-starting 3rd level. He is bum high, but to ride him you’d never know it. He can carry himself uphill so nicely.

No, he’s not Appendix. He’s an unregistered TBxQH.

His conformation isn’t going to win any awards, but you couldn’t easily find a better amateur mount.

If I were looking today I would check the halter bred horse’s pedigree. If his ancestors largely retired after their halter careers I’d pass. If his ancestors largely had the heavy muscling and blocky build of halter horses, I’d pass.

I bought a 3 year old race bred QH who looked like a TB in build. By the time he was 7 he was massive. Not like halter horse bulk, just a big, solid, wide horse. We did some dressage, but being competitive above First would have been beyond him even without the career ending injury. And he was race bred (grand sire was champion 3 yr old running QH in his year) not halter bred.

[Belowthesalt]

My horse is hot - he’s an Araloosa and tends more to the Arabian quickness/hotness. But the breeder* I bought him from breeds App/TB, App/WB and App/App horses, all of which are tall, colorful, good dispositions , and talented sport horses. Also, there used to be a breeder in PA who bred similar horses, though tending a bit more towards H/J than dressage type. If you like color, too, I would suggest looking for horses of the WAP or Confetti bloodlines.

*Caveat here is that she usually sells them by the time they are two, if not earlier, and you probably don’t want to raise a baby. But there are horses of that breeding out there that might work for you if color isn’t an issue for you.

[joiedevie99]

I second looking at crosses. Major generalization, but the best QH’s for dressage tend to be the ranch bred ones - and those are unlikely to be the size you want. There are some lovely, sturdy, level-headed Morgans and Standarbreds out there too, but size will likely still be a problem. Azteca and Appendix could both fit the bill - but there are an awful lot of bad ones out there too. It’s not a sure thing. A crappily-conformed QH crossed with a local Andalusian whose sole qualification is pretty hair is likely to do about as well as the bulldog halter QH. But there are really good ones out 6too there in both crosses if you turn over enough rocks.

[Fillabeana]

I would go look at ranch horses as well. I don’t know where you are in the US (or Canada?) but I would go find a reputation ranch horse sale.
You would be looking at horses that are already ridden, a lot, and hopefully ‘outside’ the arena quite a bit.

That means that you would be able to evaluate movement and conformation. You are probably not going to find an 8 mover, but you will likely find plenty of horses that are really nice to be around- tie, trailer, trail ride…just generally fun and ready to go do something without antics. Such a horse would also probably be pretty easy to take to lower level events.

You’re not likely to find Western Pleasure training on the ‘real’ ranch horses, but you might see some that have been arena roping competitively. I would avoid buying a horse for dressage if it has been ridden much in a tiedown as the roping horses are. A horse with good experience branding calves should be fairly bombproof, and not many use a tiedown in the branding pen.

Also, do look at 15.2 and up. My husband rides a 15.3 gelding…and that horse is BIG. Not huge/stocky/bunchy muscled, but he wears a pretty big cinch and takes up just about all of my husband’s (6’3" and very leggy) leg. The horse probably weighs 1350 pounds…my 16.2 OTTB is a smaller horse.

In my neck of the woods (Oregon) you could probably find a nice 6 to 10 year old gelding at a reputation sale for $10000 to $15000, perhaps less from a private party.

[puzzle]

Try to find an overgrown reining stock yearling or two year old and train it up! Think that’s your best bet, also look at ranchbreds or a QHx. My other thought is that I have met some rather large (16.3-17h) HUS QHs who are much more suited to dressage work conformationally than the traditional western pleasure or halter varieties. I think if I were you, I would keep my eyes and ears open for young stock that isn’t going to make the cut /because/ of their size for ranch and or reining, or find something with the appropriate conformation as a HUS prospect and get your hands on it before it gets the winglish training in its’ head. Good luck!

[Airfern]

@Scribbler

Actually what you need is an azteca, a QH cross Andalusian. They come out looking anywhere from a very nice Qh to very Iberian. They are very common in the Western us, cheaper than pure Iberian, and more level-headed. They get gait and uphill from the Andalusian side.

Me and my Azteca second this!
I’m also in PNW and wish Redmond could have helped me find one for the $1000-5000 price :). Most of what I find is rodeo/ charro aztecas running through auctions. I paid more for a dressage foundation and temperament.

[Edre]

I actually know a QH horse schooling third. Per my trainer, he was the easiest horse to do a lot of things with she’s ever worked had (changes, half pass, collection). The gaits aren’t “10” but he’s good-minded with a pleasing work ethic if you ride him appropriately. It sounds like what you’re looking for is this type of guy (and he is a bit taller, but perhaps barely 16h?) That said, he’s wide and stout so for me (bigger rider - solid & tall with a lot of leg) he was really quite comfortable.

There are people out there who are breeding QHs for sport, which might be a good option for you. I think this guy actually came out of a reining program, but I know they’re typically smaller than what you’re looking for.

Ultimately I’m not the biggest fan of how halter horses are conformed, especially in regards to a dressage second career - I think some of the HUS options can be lovely (and tall enough) but pay attention to neck and shoulder. If you can find an overgrown cutting/reining/ranch bred horse, that might be a nice, athletic, well built, and good minded option.

[redsoxluvr]

@Scribbler

Appendix can be nice if the parents are nice. Ideally you’d get size and elegance and stamina from the TB and bone and butt and agility and calm from the QH.

But I’ve seen some disappointing ones. QH neck, TB butt, QH orneriness, TB spook.

I have a beautiful gelding by Invitation Only. 17.2H, with really lovely gaits. Sadly, he has crappy little QH feet with a very tall body and a gigantic spook. He has also had some very, very bad training via the AQHA HUS circuit. He is terrified to go forward on his own as someone clearly beat the crap out of him every time he did. He has put me off quarter horses for good, I think. At this point I am thisclose to retiring him at age 10.

[outerbanks77]

I’d look at racing lines or Appendix. I have an appendix mare now and she is just so lovely to work with. That is not to say she is calm off-property yet at age 5, but she is so personable, tries really hard, and looks really cute when she gets it all together. Her QH side is actually more WP lines, not racing lines.

I have really nice 17H gelding that is running bred with full QH papers and vet asked if he was Hanoverian. He would have been a great dressage horse had he stayed sound. Lateral work is easy for him and he has an uphill tendency. Along with Redsox’s caveat above, I’d say to avoid the QHs that are approaching and exceeding 17H. I think they’ve just been bred in more recent years and IMO likely to have soundness issues, either to unproven genetics or being pushed through the same early training program as their smaller counterparts.

Aztecas are nice, but I’ve looked and it seems really rare to find anything 16H+.

I’d avoid the halter breeding like the plague. Big fat bodies not made for elastic movement, often downhill and all built on dinky feet and legs. Many are quite downhill as well.

[MysticOakRanch]

I don’t know enough about bloodlines to help, but you might also look at racing lines and if you are OK with less height, cutting lines. I know a cutter trainer who has some awesome horses in his barn - nice movers, athletic, and quite the ability to sit. They are on the hotter side, but hot in a sensible way.

Also, as many have said - Appendix QH - I know someone who has had a few of these as eventers, and they are taller, and pretty capable.

In the Paint world, there are breeders who breed for “sport horse” type - I know someone (has been retired from breeding for many years now) who had several that would meet your criteria - all were at least 15.3, leggy, good angles, decent movers. The Paint registry accepts Tbred blood - in fact you can find pure Jockey Club TB in their registry!

We have a dressage trainer out here who rides a Paint (client owned) at the FEI levels. I think a couple of people have gotten their silver medals on him now.

They are out there!

[arlosmine]

Nope to halter lines, won’t stay sound
REAL RANCH horses (as in, working ranch lines) can be outstanding athletes. Especially if they’ve been born on the range and live out. They know where every foot is, and they are sound , sound, sound.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

The title made me laugh…my hubby is an avid car racer and they speak of “stock” meaning…the car is in it’s natural form as from the manufacturer. The joy for the racing enthusiast is “mods” - adding (usually) expensive upgrades to improve performance, or slash weight for more speed.

I was imaging taking my “stock” Trakhener and adding…a racing exhaust, better suspension, Pirelli rubber…wheel blocks and a new upgraded “tune”…ie computer chip. If a car has a tune…the expression is it has been “breathed on”. But it voids the warranty. So be sure to pull it out before the next vet check!

Sorry…just struck me as cute. If anyone has a spouse into cars or is into racing maybe you will get a chuckle.

If I were going to mod my WB for track performance…I guess I’d get the hay belly off first and then add in some serious racing fuel. Still better to go with our TB in his stock form.

[beau159]

@Alterubi

It has been challenging finding a non-downhill AQHA/Paint/Appaloosa that is also over 16hh, and that hasn’t had too much of the WP training. I’ve seen some very cute reiner types that would be great, but they tend to be on the shorter side.

It does make your search a bit tougher because most stock horses just naturally aren’t going to be that tall. They are out there, of course, but it’s not the majority.

@Alterubi

Any bloodlines to keep an eye out for? Or ones to avoid?

Am I correct to avoid halter bred horses? I’ve recently found one local to me that is young and hasn’t had too much of the wrong kind of training and a cute mover. But I worry about longer term soundness.

Well first of all, ANY horse can develop a soundness issue. I would personally look less at bloodlines, and look at the individual build of the horse and access if their movement is appropriate for dressage.

A couple years ago, I sold a really really nice Quarter Horse for my aunt. I rode him for about 2 months to get him tuned up enough to sell. While I am more of a western rider, we like to dabble in English at our local shows. I thought he was a real looker (here he is). I actually sold him to a client of my English trainer. She rode him and loved, loved him. Said he had all the suspension and movements that a nice dressage horse should have. His new owner has since passed away (cancer) but my trainer still has him. If I had had the space, I would have kept him myself.

He wasn’t bred anything super fancy (pedigree - went back to Two Eyed Jack and Jackie Bee) but he would put together nicely (picture) and moved well. He was about 15.2 hands, or a little smaller.

I’ve had several Two Eyed Jack horses over the years, and they’ve always been nice horses.

[ladyj79]

I just bought an appendix a few weeks ago. I was looking at my standard ottbs and young wbs since that’s my budget. But this appendix came on my radar, he is about 75% tb, looks and moves like a hunter, is 16.3 and under saddle at four, and very affordable as something of a hardship sale.

My thing is I don’t care what the breed is, although I care about breeding, but I have pretty fixed criteria that a variety of breeds might potentially meet, and I keep my eyes open. This particular guy I got a line on because last summer the same trainer had a similar horse for sale, we chatted, I didn’t end up with that one but we ended up fb friends and so I always knew what she had coming in for training and for sale.

As with any horse, take your time.

[Sancudo]

Second an appendix. I bought one online last year, that had done a bit of western and English and trail, but didn’t really have a solid foundation in any one thing (which I saw as a plus!) In a year he’s gone from not really having his leads to now having all of the 3rd level work, picked up changes in a few weeks, super easy lateral work and even has piaffe in hand started. All with me as an ammy doing all the riding and with a handful of lessons over the year. It helps that he’s super sensitive like the TB side, picks thinks up SO quickly. Plus he’s buckskin and 16 hands and moves quite nicely.