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How to get a horse that plants their feet to *move*!

Eventing
#1

So, I’ve got a bit of a unique situation on my hands and curious how others go about this.

I’ve been riding a mare that is the quirkiest creature I have ever sat on. For context, this horse was in a trailer accident years ago, and has been spooky as all hell ever since, but is also just conformationally weird (short front legs, short neck, very straight hind legs which all makes the dressage a challenge). Her owner got sick and leased her out to two girls who shared a half lease on her at my barn-one of the girls ended her half of the lease, and so the other girl now just asks me to ride her sometimes when she can’t get to the barn. The horse does all of these things with her too-she has just learned when to pick her battles and if there’s a day the horse won’t cooperate, then she’ll try again another day and is endlessly patient with the mare.

Now, I don’t pay to ride this horse, so I have no ground to stand on to suggest to the owners to go down the vet route and see if something could be wrong - and I do believe they have tried a few things to no avail. I guess the mare just has some mental trauma from the accident, and we work with what we have.

The thing is, there are some things she’s spooky about that she will not get over whatsoever. The woods that begin at the far end of our outdoor, the far door in our indoor (we have two large entrances to the indoor), the nearest corner of the indoor (where some small farming equipment is, but not as much as the other corner that doesn’t concern her at all), when snow slides off the roof it’s the end of the world for her, etc.

Most of the time, the horse will bolt. Occasionally though, she’ll just refuse to move at all. This is different than her just “freezing”, because it’s only near the scary stuff like the corner and there’s no big reaction after freezing, she’ll just only move if you let her get further away from it. She’ll go around fine, but try to go into the corner and she’ll plant her feet entirely and refuse to move a single foot. It’s like it’s half fear, half stubbornness.

Things I have not tried thus far: getting off and walking her to the scary things then getting back on (though I have walked her by them before getting on and it makes no difference), lunging her near them, or putting spurs on and just trying more leg that way.

Things I have tried: small circle and slowly make it bigger and bigger until she gets closer to the scary area (this sometimes works but it’s not reliable), asking for lateral work when going by it (I’ve had the most success with this but only if she starts the ride willing to do those things and sometimes she doesn’t), letting her stand for a few mins then giving a light tap or kick to go forward and see the scary stuff, etc.

I don’t personally have any experience dealing with this-and honestly, since it’s not my horse if I have to just call it a day when she gets like this then fine. But I’d like to try my hardest to help her get a little bit better with this stuff so that when her owner is healthy enough to ride again she’s not too tough for her. So…any special tips or tricks??

#2

What do you do with your outside rein when you’re trying lateral work to go by? What are you doing with your inside rein? What are you doing with both legs? What are you trying to accomplish with using lateral work to get by the scary things? Which way is the horse looking? Which way are you looking? How far ahead of the scary items are you starting your lateral work?

Further questions - in a non-scary environment, can you flex and counter flex this horse using only a leg at the girth? Do you have really good reactions for giving the moment the horse tries to do a bit of what you’re asking? What does the term “more leg” mean to you? Does the mare give you warning (head raising, ear pricking, back tension, stabby gait) before the stop and plant?

#3

I just want to say don’t get hurt trying to fix someone else’s problem.

Maybe I’m projecting here but I’d be leery about a horse that plants their feet. I’d be concerned that if the horse were to elevate their “I’m NOT doing this” response it might result in going backwards then up.

You are on a horse that may or may not be sore who knows when she acts a certain way she can force the rider (the leaser) into “picking her battles”. I think that is a recipe for disaster.

I can appreciate looking for exercises to work through this but you are fighting an uphill battle - again, please don’t get hurt.

Just my two cents that I may be totally off base on, but wanted to share to give you my outside perspective

19 Likes
#4

Usually for the lateral work I use it when we go past the door she’s so afraid of - I ask specifically for a shoulder in because she does it really well so reacts quite well and it takes the focus off the door, but I think also her not being able to stare right at the door as she goes by helps.

She does generally respond really well to leg aids when she isn’t in a scary place-she is certainly not dull to it, bends well either direction off just the leg. Her neck is very short so she can basically swing her whole head around to your thigh if she wants to-so if you just chug along without doing much of anything she’ll swing her head around to look at the thing and then go sideways to steer very very clear of it. For instance, if I try to go by the door at the far end she’ll stare right at it and cut off that whole end of the ring and keep going. But if I try and keep her from cutting it off and just trot by, then she’ll just slow down to a stop.

I’ve managed to weasel my way closer to the scary things with her by doing the things like the shoulder in, but last night with her leaser she completely planted her feet until finally the girl just got off. So I’m expecting her to be a little bit more stubborn even for me when I get on her tonight.

#5

I totally agree with you! I’m going to try a few things but if it seems like it’s not going to work, then it’s true it is totally not actually my problem. The good news is that she’s much much worse about this in the indoor for whatever reason-so when things warm up and we can get back outside the rides will be easier. So if I need to just be straight up and say “yeah sorry she wouldn’t do anything tonight when I tried to ride” throughout winter then fine (and her owner & leaser will understand and won’t be mad).

It’s just crazy how the horse is such a fun ride but then when this stuff happens, it’s totally shit haha.

#6

Here’s a thought. When she’s scared at the door, try a shoulder OUT or the first few steps of a leg yield to center. Reason being - even if her body is technically complying with the bend you’re asking for, the connection to the outside rein is likely a bit iffy, and you’re not really acknowledging her (in her mind, legit) fear of the outside. Allow her to drift in more than you might want to, but make SURE that the connection is there and through. Keep casually circling there, allowing her to acknowledge her fear as long as she isn’t wild or dangerous about it, until hopefully the reaction lessens.

Bottom line - this horse doesn’t have a forward button. If you should decide to install one, I’d do that from the ground on the lunge line first. Cluck = GO, every time, and with some hustle.

6 Likes
#7

I understand that it’s not your responsibility, but do you know if the mare has ever had her vision evaluated?

3 Likes
#8

I don’t know honestly - I’ve thought that as well and have been meaning to ask. I assume they have given she supposedly didn’t use to be so spooky about things, but that was before the trailering accident. Her owners may just assume she’s reactive now because of the accident.

#9

I would try to reframe the way she thinks of the scary corner by making the scary corner the bestest ( :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:) place in the world to be. I would make her work (real work that makes her think, not just putzing around) in her “safe” areas, then get as close as possible to the scary place and let her have a break and just stand. Maybe even give her a treat. Then take her back to the “safe” area to continue work. When done I would go back to the scary corner to dismount, give her a pat and a cookie. Repeat ad nauseum until she decides she would rather stand in the corner than work up the other end of the arena.

3 Likes
#10

When I was a kid my pony was like that. I found that a bucket of grain placed strategically in scary areas helped tremendously. Only way to get him to trot lol.

Now that I know more, I’d establish a really good go and whoa in long lines/lunging and then have a ground person to help translate it to saddle. Tons of transitions and keep her mind super busy with poles, etc.

3 Likes
#11

I think this might be the way to go lol. I’d love to really take the time with her to fix things, but sometimes I ride her once a week and other times I ride her 3 times a week, so I don’t quite have enough consistency to work on the lunge some days (and she’s stubborn as all hell so I don’t think it’s necessarily an issue with going forward but rather a stubborn mare lol. If anything she’s generally too forward!)

1 Like
#12

I’ll give this a go too!

#13

Hokay! Sounds like most things are in place to bend her little mind in a good way, and bend your little mind in a somewhat non-traditional way (although in the very end it’s all the same, we just use it differently to deal with stuff like this).

In a safe zone of the arena, on a 20m circle play with changing lateral balance by ‘shoving’ her left for a few steps with your right leg and then right with your left leg. Be sure to soften the opposite leg so it’s doing absolutely nothing. Now, throw away whichever is the outside rein. So if you’re using your left leg to push the shoulders to the right, slacken your right rein and let her ‘run’ through the right shoulder. When you get that feeling of “er, wtf even is this bizarre sideways disaster that I’ve always been told is wrong” switch (by slowly changing your aids) to the other shoulder ‘running out.’ Once you’ve got that, play around with how much you can ALSO release the inside rein momentarily to let her know, “Hey! Isn’t this crazy! Thanks for doing this crazy stuff with me!”

Then, you’re ready to start playing with it around the whole arena. Shift balance from one shoulder to the other by asking her to ‘run through’ both shoulders. BUT! Always make sure you’re asking her to run through the outside (relative to the arena) shoulder as you approach the point that you know she starts looking.

Keep her head well to the inside BUT make sure you’re rewarding that often and obviously even if it means you just have to correct her 1/2 stride after giving. Do NOT hold her ‘within the aids’ but expect her to listen, stay soft, and do respond to your clearly batshit crazy requests of moving in this bizarre fashion.

I promise, done right, this will fix the problem. And bonus, for an exercise that tells you to throw away your outside rein, it will actually give both you and the horse a better understanding of the outside rein over time. You will end up with a straighter, more supple, and more confident correct horse.

1 Like
#14

I forgot to address this part. Unless you are teaching the leaser, you’re going to have to expect the mare to be the kind of horse all horses are and to understand that you have different expectations than each other. We’ve all known the horse that treats beginners like they are made of glass, intermediate riders like lawn darts, and truly advanced riders like they actually know what they’re doing unless they need to be taken down a peg.

Horses are smart. Horses understand that different people inhabit different rungs of the hierarchy. Do NOT concern yourself with what this horse does for other people. Concern yourself with how this horse and you communicate. Build trust. Be fair. Be firm. The cool thing is that after lots of that type of consistency, eventually a lot of horses start behaving better for everyone because they realize it is easy, more comfortable, and not anything to be frightened of or defensive about.

3 Likes
#15

This is exactly what I’m hoping, and I do think this horse has been worse for the leaser than for me-not because I’m a better rider by any means, but my own gelding can throw a mean buck so when this little mare tries to be a pill in general it doesn’t really faze me as much.

#16

But anyways thank you @sascha and everyone else, these are great suggestions! I will see how this fares for us and go from there.

1 Like
#17

Without seeing a video, the behavior as described is projecting a horse who has little trust and confidence in her rider. The horse seems to have fear, or fear-based resistance, and doesn’t trust her people when they tell her it’s ok.

If the horse is genuinely worried and tension escalates, I would practice Warwick Schiller methods and strive to keep the horse below threshold. Don’t force the horse somewhere it’s not ready or comfortable. That’s not to say “avoid all scary places”, but approach them in a different way that gives the horse some choice, and relief from the pressure. Horses feel empowered when they feel “heard” by their handler/rider, they gain trust and confidence.

At some point, yes “Forward means FORWARD” but if the horse shuts down you need to take a dozen steps back and lay a foundation of connection first. I start a lot of baby horses, and never pass up an opportunity to let them see, smell, and touch scary things. I don’t expect them to just “ignore it” before they understand what “it” is. It builds trust in the rider and confidence in the horse to face fears and overcome them.

At some point you may question if there is a physical reason behind the fear. A horse in chronic pain is understandably more fearful than one who doesn’t hurt; the hurt horse feels vulnerable and sees wolves or lions in hidden corners. Chronic pain often leads to ulcers, which also can cause a horse to “see dead people.”

Thousands of hours in the saddle, and hundreds of horses beneath me has changed my perspective and I see things much more with my horses’ eyes than my own. I’m a lot less likely to just “kick on” and fight through a disobedience. Actually I rarely have to, because I’m able to avoid the disobedience in the first place. You build a confident, trusting partner when you phrase your questions to them in a way that “Yes” is the easy and obvious first answer.

9 Likes
#18

As you know, there are no “tricks” when it comes to training.
Part of the difficulty in this is that the other riders are ENABLING her. When she freezes, and they get off, she wins. She learns she can be stubborn and get away with it. So she continues. I understand that sometimes you do have to pick your battles as you work through issues, but this will slow down progress.

Couple different ways I might approach this, depending on the horse.

If she does not want to be near the scary object, then allow her to go where she wants to go, and make. her. work. No, that doesn’t mean you beat on her, but she should be huffing and worked up a good sweat, whether that’s loping circles, doing transitions, etc etc, whatever your fancy. Then when you feel like she would maybe appreciate a rest, you head toward the spot where she doesn’t want to be. Now, the key here is for the rider to cue for the stop BEFORE the horse decides it wants to stop. Then you let her rest. Stand there 5 minutes if you want. Then, take her back to where she thinks she wants to be, and put her to work again. When she gets tired, head toward the “bad spot” and stop her near it (rider’s decision to stop). And then let her rest.

If you do this right, pretty soon she’s going to actually WANT to be by the spot she “doesn’t like”. Because you’ve now associated something pleasant with it.

So that’s one way you could go about it.

The other way, is dealing with it when she freezes by the object. This is the part that might look ugly, and I mean it when I saw that. If she is downright refusing to move, you have to convince her to make a decision. If you need to use spurs or if you need to use a whip, you just need to do something to get her to have a reaction. She may very well make the wrong decision (if she bolts or bucks or example) but the whole goal is to get her to make a decision, and not just stand there frozen. And that’s the part people don’t like because it looks ugly, no way around it and it’s not about “beating” the horse but you do need to apply enough pressure that it’s going to force her to decide to do something.

If there is personally one thing that I really hate, is a horse that has frozen feet. I would rather their feet moving in the wrong direction or wrong decision so long as their feet are still moving.

Regarding some of the other issues the horse has (noodle neck, not following her nose. etc etc. ) those are all basic things that can be worked on away from the scary corner that wouldn’t necessarily have to do with the scary corner. A lot of these thing are going back to basics and reinforcing what is correct. When a horse has holes in their training, they are just manifested worse when their reactiveness is heightened.

2 Likes
#19

@EventerAJ is right. To me, this sounds like a horse that has ZERO trust in her handlers/riders plus a healthy dose of ‘if I just keep balking, the scary session will end’. And maybe pain?

That isn’t to say you should be like the lease rider and tiptoe around her. It means you need to establish some of that trust first. I won’t go into a ton of detail because I think EventerAJ nailed it, but Warwick’s free stuff is a great starting place to change your mindset and give you some tools. Letting her know you hear her concerns and allow her some time to process instead of ‘kicking on through’ - rewarding every small try, essentially - will get you pretty far. Horses that plant as she does can very easily explode up and over, so working on expanding her threshold instead of flooding her is probably safer for you too. Be careful.

It’s easier to do this with young horses and those who haven’t had bad habits installed, but these days I rarely have a huge “fight” with a horse about a scary corner or whatever. You’d be surprised how well it goes if you’re able to just letting them look for a bit, maybe walk past the thing each way, slowly (over days, if necessary) expanding their comfort zone, all while you sit chilly and talk to them. That is, if you’ve established that you’re a trustworthy human from the moment you walk into the barn.

I do ‘groundwork’, but also little things like taking a horse out of the tie area to go see the Scary Revving Motorcycle that’s behind them… and then going right back to the ties once we’ve established it won’t eat them. Allowing them to gawk at the giant excavator, walk around it, put their nose on it, realize it’s just a big metal thing, and THEN go to work. Treats when they walk a bit closer than yesterday to the tarp covered woodpile and then going to work somewhere else. Lots of handwalking on trails where they learn I’m not going to put them into a situation they can’t handle (I think this is likely the biggest help).

Safety first. And if it becomes clear she’s either Too Much for you to handle while her other riders undermine your work and/or she’s in pain, be willing to step away from the free ride.

5 Likes
#20

Also generally agree with the possibility of a trust issue as someone with a horse who also likes to plant her feet. Usually the more one on one groundwork sessions I do with her, especially those in which I get her to move her shoulder and cross her legs, the better she is under saddle. She normally does it when she has a mental block, seemingly surrounding confidence, so when she does do it under saddle I translate my ground methods to the situation and if that doesn’t work then I just give a her a minute to think about it before trying again. She’s usually very willing afterwards. So maybe try developing more connection on the ground and give her something else to think about when you prepare to ride by those scary spots.

3 Likes

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