I made the analogy of adopting a dog from the shelter, as opposed to buying from a breeder, and then when figuring out the dog is purebred, thinking I have the RIGHT to its papers. Smacks of greed and entitlement, especially when the OP basically said in the op that now that the friend has figured out that the filly is decently bred, that they might want to race her. So much for doing a good deed for the sake of doing a good deed. Insert rolly eyes here.
[QUOTE=RockinHorse;4948885]
Just curious, with no papers and no brand, how do you know he is a purebred Saddlebred?[/QUOTE]
Educated guess? 
I guess I can’t say I know for sure without papers on him, but as we’ve had a number of purebred Saddlebreds over the last few years, (some of whom we found out were very well bred, former show horses once we’d had help in IDing them), I’m confident that Jeffrey is a purebred Saddlebred. There was a sheriff’s forced auction a few years back, a large group of ASBs were run through the local auction barn in rough shape, without their papers, and those that didn’t ship to slaughter ended up scattered around the countryside here. Thankfully with help, we were able to ID the 4 mares we had from that group, and he may have come off that farm. Or he may have come from somewhere entirely different, as we do run into ASBs at the sales around here every now and then.
I guess I know with Jeffrey, the same way I know that the absolutely gorgeous 2 year old Arab gelding I bought at a sale a few months ago was a purebred Arabian who was sold without his papers. Maybe a breeder cull? Maybe sold due to non-paid board? Don’t know why he was there, and almost the last horse of the day at the auction- but he’s something special. 
A very fancy gelding, and what a NICE horse. Too bad we’ll probably never know “who” he is either.
ASB Stars- you have mail.
There is a reason that filly was culled, and culled yearlings, broodmares, anything are not sold with papers. It isn’t because the breeder is afraid of competition, it is simply because it is a cull - read the cull has a problem that is not readily apparent to someone NOT in the Standardbred industry. This filly may be able to get the SPHO certificate as she has a legible freeze brand but not to full papers. Simply put, get over it, leave the breeder alone and contact USTA for SPHO certificate.
I work for the Standardbred registry. If you call me at 732-780-3700 or email me HRCNews@ustrotting.com I will try to help. Let me know her registered name and/or freeze brand number and markings to be sure she is who you think she is. I know the president of Blue Chip Farm and that may be a help here. Yes, you cannot get papers without them being transferred to you by the last listed owner of the horse. The mare certainly may be very well bred, but perhaps she has passed on some conformation flaws that are not good to have in the gene pool, or has reproductive problems; could be lots of reasons she ended up where she did, none of them a good excuse, though.
Thank you all for your interest in Standardbreds. We are soon to put online a pleasure registration that will allow papers to be conferred without the horse ending up racing or being bred. I think we all know a horse may look great on paper but have chronic/unseen issues that means they are best kept out of the breeding shed or racetrack. We are also soon to go online with a replication of the AQHA’s Full Circle program, which allows past owners or breeders to identify themselves as wanting to know when a horse ends up unwanted.
Ellen Harvey
Ellen, Thank you for your offer of help. I will give your name and number to my friend.
[QUOTE=Timex;4953542]
… especially when the OP basically said in the op that now that the friend has figured out that the filly is decently bred, that they might want to race her. So much for doing a good deed for the sake of doing a good deed. Insert rolly eyes here.[/QUOTE]
You have no clue what either I or my friend is or is not intending. Neither of us has any intention of ever having a race horse of any breed, period. My OP does NOT state that either one of us wants to race or breed this filly. We wanted to have whatever we could put in place to safeguard this filly’s future, period. Nothing more, nothing less. Not a single one of us knows what the future holds. We thought this would help the horse. Can you please stop attacking us as money grubbing, hateful, greedy gold diggers now? Nothing could be farther from the truth. If you knew either one of us you would know that, but you don’t so you feel free to attach whatever motives you imagine we have and then berate us for it. Buying horses from kill buyers sight unseen wouldn’t be the thing to do if we were really all about the money, now would it? Can you please just let it go?
Read what you wrote, in your very first post, from anyone else’s perspective. I’m not the only one that got a bad taste in my mouth from your choice in words. If you don’t like the answers you’ve gotten, from me or anyone else, then you shouldn’t have posted it in the first place. Its my opinion, if you don’t like it, then I don’t know what to tell you. shrug As for the bad mouthing of the breeders, do you KNOW, for certain, how that filly happened to end up at that auction? I doubt it, and so I feel compelled to play devils advocate until and unless you can show us that the breeders knowingly did something wrong by this filly. Sorry if you don’t like that, but oh well.
[QUOTE=Timex;4955172]
Read what you wrote, in your very first post, from anyone else’s perspective. I’m not the only one that got a bad taste in my mouth from your choice in words. If you don’t like the answers you’ve gotten, from me or anyone else, then you shouldn’t have posted it in the first place. Its my opinion, if you don’t like it, then I don’t know what to tell you. shrug As for the bad mouthing of the breeders, do you KNOW, for certain, how that filly happened to end up at that auction? I doubt it, and so I feel compelled to play devils advocate until and unless you can show us that the breeders knowingly did something wrong by this filly. Sorry if you don’t like that, but oh well.[/QUOTE]
What is so wrong with the OP? I’ve read it a few times now and it doesn’t leave a bad taste in my mouth. The mare is registered and should have her papers with her. The OP is right- it will offer her some protection. Not everyone can look at a freeze mark and go ‘oh, that horse is a xxx breed.’
I’m quite annoyed at the tone this thread has taken. WTF is everyone’s problem?
Because they want the papers to breed or race her. She said it in her first post. Like somehow, now that they know it’s not a grade QH, the horse is at risk if they can’t get papers on it.
[QUOTE=DandyMatiz;4956828]
Because they want the papers to breed or race her. She said it in her first post. Like somehow, now that they know it’s not a grade QH, the horse is at risk if they can’t get papers on it.[/QUOTE]
Right there–the OP changed their tune as soon as people called them on it, but in the first post they say the papers would allow her to race or be bred for it. Now it’s to keep her ‘safe’. So if she’d been the unregistered QH the OP’s friend THOUGHT she was buying, she’d be in danger? At this point, she is ONLY going to be in danger if the OP’s friend lets it happen.
Several years ago, an individual bought an ugly picture, at auction. If I remember correctly, they purchased it to re-use the frame. They got it home, and upon dissasembling it, they found a copy of the Declaration of Independence. It was later authenticated.
Now, bear in mind, I believe that the filly should have her identity-- regardless. Period. Papers and all.
But it seems to me that some of you would say to the person who bought the picture, “look, you bought a butt ugly picture- just because you wanted the frame. You have no right to any other use of that picture. Period”.
Not a perfect analogy, by any means, but this filly may, or may not, be more than she appeared to the breeder. It doesn’t matter. She still deserves to be authenticated, with all that means, with regard to her provenance.
If, on down the line, she does produce a Neville Pride, or an Albatross, or nothing-- it doesn’t matter. She still deserves to be all that she can be.
