[QUOTE=Charliemyheart;7848190]
Then why do we not ride bareback? Because a saddle is suppose to stable us on a horse. I am not trying to be mean, but isn’t the whole point of a saddle to help you stay on. My first in a close contact saddle I ended up flopping around like a fish.[/QUOTE]
Your seat and balance should stabilize you on a horse. Sounds like your first ride in a close contact saddle was pretty telling.
[QUOTE=kdow;7848614]
Well, there’s the whole period of time while the horse is getting training to be more broke… Plus any horse can have a complete doofus moment or trip and fall or something. The tide turned somewhat in dressage because an Olympic level dressage rider wasn’t wearing a helmet and got a severe head injury because her quite sensibly behaving horse slipped and fell while they were not doing anything particularly interesting. (Walking to the arena or going out for a hack or something.) That isn’t exactly someone without skill on a poorly trained or unfit horse, or someone doing something dumb. Good rider, good horse, poop happens.[/QUOTE]
My comment wasn’t about wearing helmets. I am aware of Courtney King Dye’s horrible accident, and yes, it can happen to anyone in an instant. My comment had to do with the comments about western tack being more dangerous. I learned to ride in an english saddle, ride western now, and am equally comfortable in an english or western saddle. Anyway, sorry didn’t mean to further derail a helmet thread…
When I started riding in my early teens (25-ish years ago), I only wore a helmet when I was jumping, as that was all that was required (I show a stock breed circuit). Over the years, when we had bred a few of our own horses and I started breaking them out and we had them at home (so I was riding by myself) I started wearing a helmet every ride. And yes, one day I came off a greenie when a cat popped out from behind a woodpile just as we were trotting by and he spooked and I hit the back of my head on the ground - I was VERY grateful for my helmet that day and it reaffirmed my decision to wear it every time.
I’m now 40 and still wear my helmet every ride and have worn my ASTM-approved helmet in my flat classes at our regional shows. However, I know it will be difficult to wear that helmet in my classes at our national/world level shows as I will literally be the only one not in a plain hunt cap. Judges always say it won’t matter, but is that the truth? You never want to be the one standing out because you look different. And I show in saddle seat classes as well - wearing a helmet just “isn’t done”. I plan to wear the helmet regardless, but it will be interesting to see what kind of reaction and advice I get.
[QUOTE=Angelico;7848638]
Your seat and balance should stabilize you on a horse. Sounds like your first ride in a close contact saddle was pretty telling.[/QUOTE]
Or more likely from what I was told from a trainer who rides both my ankles are shot, so riding in short stirrups weakens them. I was taught in a western saddle, but I can when I choose to ride bareback my center of balance is fine. I don’t ride off of a horse’s mouth, but my seat.
[QUOTE=Raleigh’s Mom;7848682]
My comment wasn’t about wearing helmets. I am aware of Courtney King Dye’s horrible accident, and yes, it can happen to anyone in an instant. My comment had to do with the comments about western tack being more dangerous. I learned to ride in an english saddle, ride western now, and am equally comfortable in an english or western saddle. Anyway, sorry didn’t mean to further derail a helmet thread…[/QUOTE]
Ah, okay. What you said reminded me a bit of the pepperoni logic from a while back that you don’t need a helmet if your horse is well enough trained! Which is stupid because things do happen. (I mean, adults can make the choice for themselves, I think it’s dumb not to wear one but whatever. I only get cranky when there is faulty ‘logic’ used as justification or faulty assumptions about what it would be like if something did happen to you. Just say you think they look ugly or you think they are uncomfortable or whatever, don’t try to claim people only need helmets if they haven’t trained their horses enough, yknow?)
Personally, I think the tack should suit the job, the horse, and the rider. I don’t like horns and don’t expect to do anything where I need one, so I am unlikely to get a traditional western saddle any time soon, but I can certainly see why something built more along those lines would be more appropriate if I was doing intensive trail riding, for example, and wanted more support than is normal in an English saddle for dealing with hills and the like, and more saddle to distribute the weight of saddle bags.
[QUOTE=La Gringa;7846450]
Rear cinch… when it is adjusted too loose is very dangerous a horse can kick and get leg caught. [/QUOTE]
If it is so loose that a horse can get its leg caught, then the back cinch is being used incorrectly.
[QUOTE=La Gringa;7846450]
Western Tie downs… are so dangerous Many are nylon and don’t break. [/QUOTE]
And English martingales are any safer?
[QUOTE=La Gringa;7846450]
Long shanked bits get caught much easier than a D ring hunter snaffle. [/QUOTE]
…Get caught on what?
[QUOTE=La Gringa;7846450]
There are a lot more potentially hazardous things… and a lot more of it on a western horse than English. I have gotten caught on the horn getting off… fortunately my shirt ripped. That never happened to me in over 30 years of h/j [/QUOTE]
I find my saddle horn to make me safer. While I don’t make it a habit to ride bucking horses, if I get my hand on the horn after the horse has gone to bucking … I ain’t coming off.
Yes I’ve broken a belt or two when it has gotten hooked on the horn during a gaming speed events, but that horn is very valuable for the reasons it was put there.
I don’t buy that Western tack is “more dangerous” than English tack. Riding horses is dangerous. Period. What tack you have on your horse doesn’t make a difference. Things can go wrong whether you have on Aussie tack, or English, or Western.
[QUOTE=La Gringa;7831644]
A lot western events are speed events or involve cattle. There is so much more tack and outside factors involved that can really get you hurt… and the fact that many are backyard trained with very little safety knowledge around horses.
I hope helmets do catch on in this group. At least the majority of the kids I saw in the barrel race did have helmets.[/QUOTE]
Yes, insulting people is such an effective way to convince them of your position! “Little safety knowledge”??? I think you do not know very much about or have clearly NOT been around many western riders. I am a helmet wearer, when I ride English (which I do rarely these days) or western, but these kind of ignorant comments are probably why people ignore your concerns.
There are riders of all disciplines who could use some safety brush ups (including me, always interested in that) but to say western riders have little safety knowledge about horses is ridiculous.
If you are getting hung up in your tie down, you might need to reconsider your choice of events.
i agree with Beau - quit preaching, start a PSA campaign, get BNTs to wear them and endorse them, but I don’t think lecturing and insulting people is the right track. And, as I said, I say that as a helmet wearer.
[QUOTE=lilitiger2;7850713]
Yes, insulting people is such an effective way to convince them of your position! “Little safety knowledge”??? I think you do not know very much about or have clearly NOT been around many western riders. I am a helmet wearer, when I ride English (which I do rarely these days) or western, but these kind of ignorant comments are probably why people ignore your concerns.
There are riders of all disciplines who could use some safety brush ups (including me, always interested in that) but to say western riders have little safety knowledge about horses is ridiculous.
If you are getting hung up in your tie down, you might need to reconsider your choice of events.
i agree with Beau - quit preaching, start a PSA campaign, get BNTs to wear them and endorse them, but I don’t think lecturing and insulting people is the right track. And, as I said, I say that as a helmet wearer.[/QUOTE]
I grew up as one of those “backyard western riders” and thank goodness for 4-H and good horse-savvy leaders who instilled good safety practices. I know I’ve done ALOT of dumb stuff in my life simply b/c I didn’t know any better. Yes, “dumb” or “ignorant” is not limited to one discipline, but I have to agree with La Gringa here. There seems to be a higher ratio of “backyard” western riders than english. I personally blame it on the saddle horn and the fact that a bad rider can be saved a bit by being able to hold onto the saddle horn and pommel. 
*Thank you for letting me (and a lot of my senior friends) know that using the saddle horn and/or pommel to help us stay mounted means we are bad riders.:no: I guess we do get “bad” after injuries (not always horse-related), strokes, debilitating disease, or just plain old age. I know several older riders who were quite good English-ers, but due to old age and slower reflexes, have changed to western-ers. It’s just plain safer for us to have that little something extra to hold on to. And most of us wear helmets. We don’t look down our noses at the ones who don’t.
I didn’t read that as that all western riders are bad. The fact that bad riders can stay on easier by holding onto the horn. They don’t need to worry so much about balance and staying with the horse when they can just hold on with their hands.
There are ignorant “backyard trained” folks in every discipline. I actually thought the question was how to get people to wear helmets, but I guess it was not really a question! Clearly the real point of this thread was “Western riders are just not as…bright as us English riders, bless their hearts, they don’t know any better! How can we get these poorly trained, ignorant riders, in their dangerous saddles and who have such little knowledge of safety, to wear helmets? GOSH! I can’t imagine why they don’t listen to people like me!!”
There are English riders who balance with their hands, yank on the mouth, bounce all over the horses back and who are no ornaments to equitation, even if they manage to stay on. There are beautiful western riders and there are clunkers. Generalizing about which is “more knowledgeable” is certainly not the way to get anyone to listen, which I guess was not the point of the thread anyway.
I believe in helmets. I love mine. I wish more people wore them. But I don’t think talking down to people, being so freaking condescending, and so forth, is an effective way to generate much change.
I don’t see how that is where that is. IME most back yard riders gravitate (those that never had lessons) to western. That in NO WAY lessons the accomplishments of those amazing western horsemen and women out there. It just seems a more approachable and friendly way of riding to many people. Its a compliment really.
But it does mean that those people tend to be riding western and thus could skew ‘injury’ results.
[QUOTE=LLee;7852022]
*Thank you for letting me (and a lot of my senior friends) know that using the saddle horn and/or pommel to help us stay mounted means we are bad riders.:no: I guess we do get “bad” after injuries (not always horse-related), strokes, debilitating disease, or just plain old age. I know several older riders who were quite good English-ers, but due to old age and slower reflexes, have changed to western-ers. It’s just plain safer for us to have that little something extra to hold on to. And most of us wear helmets. We don’t look down our noses at the ones who don’t.[/QUOTE]
Whoa, LLee! My point was taken WAYYY out of context. I do most of my trail riding and riding “green” horses in a western saddle. I <3 my western saddles (show and an ancient trail saddle that has seen better days but fits me so well that I refuse to get ride of it)!
What I mean is that on most “beginner” rides, tourist trail rides, etc where places put people with NO riding experience on horses, they almost always use western saddles. They tend to be more secure as there are things to hold onto more than an english saddle.
[QUOTE=Aven;7852031]
I didn’t read that as that all western riders are bad. The fact that bad riders can stay on easier by holding onto the horn. They don’t need to worry so much about balance and staying with the horse when they can just hold on with their hands.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I meant 
If I am putting someone who has never ridden before or very little on one of my horses, you can bet your bottom that they are going to be in my western saddle and not my jumping or dressage saddles.
A lot western events are speed events or involve cattle. There is so much more tack and outside factors involved that can really get you hurt… and the fact that many are backyard trained with very little safety knowledge around horses.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one rubbed the wrong way by this statement.
And just where have you found this to be “fact”?
Well IME all the back yard trained riders ride western. But not all (or even most) western riders are back yard trained. I have yet to come across an english rider who didn’t take lessons for a while at some point. I have met quite a few western riders (or people who sit in western tack) who brag about never needing lessons. I used to run a barn down the road from a girl who never had lesson’s who’s dad bought her a stallion to trail ride around the countryside. Western tack only as english was for ‘sissies’. Gelding said stallion was also not allowed as that would be ‘mean’.
This is not a ‘dig’ at the discipline. Its that for what ever reason people in my area that are drawn to ‘just get on and ride’ all pick western tack.
As a western rider since the 50s (and English since early 60s) I learned long ago that grabbing the horn does not help you stay on, it often facilitates your buying real estate. Which is why those who wish to have security handy use a nightlatch.
And I haven’t read every post, but the notion that western tack is more dangerous than English tack is completely without merit.
[QUOTE=Beverley;7853848]
As a western rider since the 50s (and English since early 60s) I learned long ago that grabbing the horn does not help you stay on, it often facilitates your buying real estate. .[/QUOTE]
But for inexperienced riders, psychologically, a western saddle feels much more secure than an English saddle. The horn, wide pommel, and wide, high cantle all provide a feeling of security that they don’t get from one of those “little postage stamp saddles.” Which is one reason why, as Aven and dramapony_misty noted, western saddles are the saddle of choice for the untrained/self-taught rider.
^ I agree. But there has been at least one post saying grabbing horn= won’t fall off. Which is not always true, on a talented bucker that will not work, hence the night latch. I suppose I have been dumped more in an English saddle but I do have plenty of experience being separated from a western saddle.
[QUOTE=Beverley;7854193]
^ I agree. But there has been at least one post saying grabbing horn= won’t fall off. Which is not always true[/QUOTE]
Yeah and that was me.
And I’ve never had a colt buck me off when I was able to get a hand on the saddle horn. Never.
Not saying I’ve never gotten bucked off (because I have) or that I make it a habit to have bucking colts, but when I get my death grip on the saddle horn, it’s game over for the horse.
It’s held pretty true for me. But maybe it makes a difference that I only ride in barrel saddles, where the horn is small and is designed for holding on? Wouldn’t work as well with a huge saddle horn on a roping saddle. Can’t get a good hold on that.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
