I did eight years of three-day eventing and foxhunting without parting company with that horse or his “postage stamp” English saddle even ONCE.
Yet a horse who came from a riding-for-the-disabled program launched me out of a Wade ranch saddle with a horn you could eat your LUNCH off of; he spooked 'n spun 180 degrees. Light on his feet, that one! :lol:
But carry on . . .
[QUOTE=beau159;7855774]
Yeah and that was me.
And I’ve never had a colt buck me off when I was able to get a hand on the saddle horn. Never.
It’s held pretty true for me. But maybe it makes a difference that I only ride in barrel saddles, where the horn is small and is designed for holding on?[/QUOTE]
Nope, there are any number of styles of horns you can get a grip on. You have just been lucky and/or haven’t ridden a truly talented bucker. And there’s nothing wrong with that!
[QUOTE=Beverley;7856472]
You have just been lucky and/or haven’t ridden a truly talented bucker. [/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself.
I’m not tooting my own horn but there’s been many instances when I should have have hit the dirt. Sometimes I don’t even know how I stay on. Just have that ability, I guess. Or call it luck. Whatever you want.
I’ve ridden a lot of horses in 25 years.
One particular horse comes to mind. My parent’s neighbor brought her to me to train to ride. We weren’t even out of the round pen after 30 days. I’ve never had a horse who I could not trust for 1 second but she literally had it out for you. She never was able to buck me off but she sure as heck tried on several occasions. There’s a difference between a horse bucking out of fear or instinct, and one that wants to harm you. She wanted to harm. Warned my neighbor up and down. Although she nice while at my place when they picked her up, they took her home and bucked her off on the first ride. They sold her immediately which is what I told them to do in the first place.
[QUOTE=Charliemyheart;7849372]
Or more likely from what I was told from a trainer who rides both my ankles are shot, so riding in short stirrups weakens them. I was taught in a western saddle, but I can when I choose to ride bareback my center of balance is fine. I don’t ride off of a horse’s mouth, but my seat.[/QUOTE]
I have one ankle that is fused and a knee with a ruined tendon and a chunk of bone missing, that still does not cause me to flop around in a English saddle. The stirrup length does not affect my seat or balance. I gallop racehorses, and while I don’t ride super short I rarely have much pain or difficulty staying balanced over the horse, despite having worn out joints.
[QUOTE=beau159;7855774]Yeah and that was me.
And I’ve never had a colt buck me off when I was able to get a hand on the saddle horn. Never.
Not saying I’ve never gotten bucked off (because I have) or that I make it a habit to have bucking colts, but when I get my death grip on the saddle horn, it’s game over for the horse.
It’s held pretty true for me. But maybe it makes a difference that I only ride in barrel saddles, where the horn is small and is designed for holding on? Wouldn’t work as well with a huge saddle horn on a roping saddle. Can’t get a good hold on that.[/QUOTE]
The original purpose of a saddle horn was to hold a lariat, not to hold on to.
I can’t stand people that say things like, “How do you ride English, there’s nothing to hold on to!!!”… Holding on to a horn rather than focusing on moving with the horse is the last thing that will help me stay on. I do use a western saddle when I pony the races, but that’s mainly so I have have a place for my extra leads and a set of blinkers.
I think an even better question is why do those western riders who do not wear helmets find it necessary to mock the people who choose to wear one?
I am saddened by the number of posts in this thread where someone said they ride western and wear a helmet and people at their barn or an event made fun of them for wearing it.
[QUOTE=rustbreeches;7826376]
I wish states would require them by law for any organized activity involving children. It seems once a month or so something comes across fb about a child having a head injury sustained during a helmetless riding incident[/QUOTE]
You are not mistaken. Anyone under 18 is required to wear a helmet when mounted in NY. Now clearly many people do not follow this rule because they insist it does not apply to their private property, etc.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;7857400]
I think an even better question is why do those western riders who do not wear helmets find it necessary to mock the people who choose to wear one?
I am saddened by the number of posts in this thread where someone said they ride western and wear a helmet and people at their barn or an event made fun of them for wearing it.
…[/QUOTE]
I think sometimes it is because they are so tired of lectures by the helmet police.
[QUOTE=Beverley;7857545]
I think sometimes it is because they are so tired of lectures by the helmet police.[/QUOTE]
Wait, so because someone else told them they should wear a helmet it makes it OK to make fun of people who have said nothing to them and are choosing to be safe?
[QUOTE=Beverley;7857545]
I think sometimes it is because they are so tired of lectures by the helmet police.[/QUOTE]
^ YES!!! That condescending, preachy, “Oh you poor incompetent soul” attitude is not likely to get much change! I thought, silly me, the point of the thread was actually how to get people to wear helmets! But no, the point seems to be “those dumb western riders!” and “let’s dump on western tack that we know little about”. That, for certainl, is not likely to get anyone to wear a helmet (who isn’t already convinced)
Sure, if I wear my helmet around some folk, i’ll get teased but so what? Some people want to take that risk, it’s their noggin. I do disagree with them and wish they would wear one but they are adults. Years ago, most people did not wear them skiing and how theydo! They did not make that choice because ignorant people wrung their hands and fretted! They changed because it appeared to be a good choice, given the risks. There is lots of marketing that could be done, getting some BNTs to wear them in training videos, PSAs about TBIs and riding - all assume people are adults an can make their own choices.Even on funny memes, I saw a cute one with four girls riding four giant draft horses and the quote was “ride a draft it will make your butt look small”. Cute but not a one was wearing a helmet!
But over time, and with good information, people make low risk choices. They wear vests and helmets for bull riding (thank you and RIP Lane Frost). Im sure it’ll happen but not because of the helmet police, that’s for sure.
[QUOTE=lilitiger2;7850713]
Yes, insulting people is such an effective way to convince them of your position! “Little safety knowledge”??? I think you do not know very much about or have clearly NOT been around many western riders. I am a helmet wearer, when I ride English (which I do rarely these days) or western, but these kind of ignorant comments are probably why people ignore your concerns.
There are riders of all disciplines who could use some safety brush ups (including me, always interested in that) but to say western riders have little safety knowledge about horses is ridiculous.
If you are getting hung up in your tie down, you might need to reconsider your choice of events.
i agree with Beau - quit preaching, start a PSA campaign, get BNTs to wear them and endorse them, but I don’t think lecturing and insulting people is the right track. And, as I said, I say that as a helmet wearer.[/QUOTE]
I am talking about the people I see at my barn all western large barn… many of whom never have had any formal training at all
Sure there are trained and safe western riders… but there are also a lot of yahoos that don’t even know what lead they are on. And yes I know lots of western riders, and have for over 30 years.
[QUOTE=beau159;7850442]
If it is so loose that a horse can get its leg caught, then the back cinch is being used incorrectly.
And English martingales are any safer?
…Get caught on what?
I find my saddle horn to make me safer. While I don’t make it a habit to ride bucking horses, if I get my hand on the horn after the horse has gone to bucking … I ain’t coming off.
Yes I’ve broken a belt or two when it has gotten hooked on the horn during a gaming speed events, but that horn is very valuable for the reasons it was put there.
I don’t buy that Western tack is “more dangerous” than English tack. Riding horses is dangerous. Period. What tack you have on your horse doesn’t make a difference. Things can go wrong whether you have on Aussie tack, or English, or Western.[/QUOTE]
We can agree to disagree then. There is a lot more tack on a western horse tha an English horse… a lot more that can get caught up. Yes I know if a rear cinch is too loose it’s on wrong… and I see it every day.
The horn can really hurt you if a horse bucks… I know from personal experience.
Feet can get hung up must easer in western big bell stirrups.
All horse sports are dangerous agreed. These are my observations… take them or leave them. I have friends that have been nearly hung by nylon jackets hung up on a horn while getting off.
The long shanks on a curb bit can get caught on stuff… just like a full cheek snaffle can. Seen it many times
English martingales are made from much thinner leather than western tie downs… and a lot of tie downs are nylon… which doesn’t break at all
Oh and how about long wicked spurs? Don’t even start me on that one.
[QUOTE=beau159;7857222]
Speak for yourself.
I’m not tooting my own horn but there’s been many instances when I should have have hit the dirt. Sometimes I don’t even know how I stay on. Just have that ability, I guess. Or call it luck. Whatever you want.
I’ve ridden a lot of horses in 25 years.
One particular horse comes to mind.[/QUOTE]
Well, Beau, truly you are taking offense where none is intended. But I first threw a leg over a horse (well, pony) in 1955. So more than one comes to mind, but if you consider number of horses ridden to be ‘the’ indicator of expertise, I am pretty sure I win.
I don’t reach for the horn myself, I can usually but not always ride it out, and if I hit the dirt, well, it’s a good osteopirosis check. But I can make constructive use of a nightlatch, or, if riding English, the top of the breastplate or when warranted a neck strap, to be prepared to nip little issues in the bud.
So hey, do what works for you. My observation about the horn was meant for the general benefit of other readers, not to single you out, you may have noticed I simply said ‘someone said,’ it didn’t particularly matter to me who made the statement.
(Riding horses is dangerous. Period. What tack you have on your horse doesn’t make a difference. Things can go wrong whether you have on Aussie tack, or English, or Western)
Ya think? Maybe that’s why I always ride in a helmet (my vet threatened to take away my birthday if I didn’t wear a helmet) and good thing I do. Three months ago my bomb-proof mare jumped sideways when I dropped my water bottle next to her, while I was on an UP post (OK, it fell out of my pocket, learned my lesson, bought bottle carrier) and I went flying. Landed on my side but I know how to roll…my head went WHACK!!! on the hard pasture. At 66 I was surprised at how well I still bounce , but surely my head would have had a nasty concussion. Yea Troxler!
Also, I bought ponies (and helmets) for my two grandkids…their parents were pissed off to the max. Horses are DANGEROUS! How could you do that without consulting us? We don’t want them doing dangerous things! These parents encourage their kids to play soccer every spring and fall, but no football dangerous). :rolleyes: Daddy forgot all about the broken wrist he got and the concussion his brother got and the many injuries the pro players get…
You don’t. It’s not a western vs. english thing
Western riders who are “anti” helmet will start wearing helmets when one of two things happen. When the governing showing/competition body makes it a rule (as it is in English disciplines w/the exception of dressage) or when someone well known gets a TBI and either is irreparably damaged and can no longer compete or starts wearing a helmet when they ride. That’s it. No amount of preaching or stats or anything else is going to change it. Unless they’re morons who don’t care or people who make a conscious choice, and that’s either style of riding, they already know there is a risk for serious injury or death and have chosen to “not care”. I ride motorcycles, when I was young and dumb, I rode both horses and bikes without a helmet. When I had an epic crash on my horse, the concussion was so bad I decided it would be a good idea to put on a helmet. While on my BIKE, but not my horse. Duh. Unless required for a competition or while foxhunting I did not start wearing a helmet til after I saw CKD at Rolex after her accident. Since I make my living with my brain, I decided I’d better put one on every ride. And I did. I now drive competitively and except for the actual competition during dressage and cones, I wear a helmet when I drive, though I have a bombproof schoolmaster. You can’t change people’s behavior. Nothing you can say or do is going to change someone’s mind, most of the time. I did see a beautiful young lady at the gas station on the back of a brand new gigantic bike that belonged to her boyfriend. Neither had a helmet on, and it was clear by how he pulled in an parked, he was “overhorsed” and had little experience. I asked her why she wasn’t wearing one, she said her bf told her not to worry. I asked her this question “If your boyfriend said “hey baby, jump on the hood of my car and I’ll drive it down the freeway at 70mph with you headfirst on the hood”, would you do it?” The lightbulb came on, she looked at me and asked me where the nearest bike shop was where she could get a helmet. Right down the street. Pretty girl looked at bf and said “unless you take me right there and get us helmets, I’m not getting on this bike again.” He looked at me and I just said to him, “she’s too pretty to risk getting hurt” and he put that I know when I’m licked, look on his face. I saw them a couple of days later (very distinctive bike) and they had on full gear. But largely, unless someone important makes the choice or makes a rule, it’s not going to happen. I mention it once, to youngsters, then let it go. I figure eventually, nature will intervene.
Agree 2ndyrgal!
It’s not about the tack, or the discipline!
And yes, when it is required, when there is an accident, or, I think, when prominent trainers start wearing them in videos and at clinics, those who don’t, might start. PSAs that offer info about TBIs, and the risks are helpful.
But, as has been confirmed, this was NOT a thread about helmets! Apparently it is a thinly disguised and ill informed rant about how western riders are poorly informed about safety, have dangerous tack, and have a greater percentage of “yahoos” (who don’t even know what lead they’re on! the horror!!!).
Contempt is never a helpful attitude but particularly not when one is interested in change (hey porky, you should lose some weight! OMG, you poor, poor thing, do you not know cigarettes are bad for you? You probably don’t know the dangers of eating fatty meat like bacon, so I’ll spell them out for you reeeeeaaaaaal slow without any big words cuz I know you probably have a poor education).
It doesn’t go any better with the helmet issue.
[QUOTE=2ndyrgal;7858838]
I figure eventually, nature will intervene.[/QUOTE]
:lol: Are you talking about that Darwin Theory thingy? The ones who survive (a helmet-less disaster) will prevail and ultimately all the riders (in a million years or so) will be genetically pre-programmed to wear helmets?
Wow, I wish I’d thought of that…makes me feel soooo much better when seeing folks helmetless :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Beverley;7858368]
Nope, there are any number of styles of horns you can get a grip on. You have just been lucky and/or haven’t ridden a truly talented bucker. And there’s nothing wrong with that! [/QUOTE]
Well you gave the options of
But left out the option of
3) Having a good seat and balance
I sure didn’t lose any sleep over it, but that’s the part I took offense to. :yes: FYI.
Either way, it’s a bit off-topic to the original conversation at hand, which just seems to be going 'round and 'round in circles, like this topic usually does.
I think a lot of people have gotten the English vs Western thing out of proportion. Hunters, jumpers , eventers, combined driving (?) and Paso Fino people must wear approved helmets to compete. That leaves all the saddleseat, western, and most of the breed competitors in the bare- (or pretty-) headed camp. And the vaulters. I agree with 2ndyrgal that change in
“the norm” will come from USEF mandates and prominent trainers wearing helmets in front of their impressionable clients.
Same thing is happening in skiing. Racers have always worn helmets, but now instructors are wearing them, and, probably more important, young freestyle-jumping-off-cliffs extreme skiers are wearing them. Kids are imitating the extreme skiers, and asking parents why they are not following suit. Helmet use has skyrocketed in the last 4-5 years.
The helmet police just need to get the trainers involved. I’m pretty sure some plaintiff’s attorney will involve USEF.
USEF has almost nothing to do with the western world of riding. The vast majority of western riders do not join USEF, and the vast majority of shows are not governed by USEF.
I agree that many western riders will mock somebody wearing a helmet as a defence mechanism due to the helmet Nazis mocking riders who choose not to wear a helmet. Any state helmet law I am aware of makes an exception for competitions. As in a helmet is not required by law at a competition, ex. an AQHA show.
[QUOTE=wonderhorseguy;7872177]
USEF has almost nothing to do with the western world of riding. The vast majority of western riders do not join USEF, and the vast majority of shows are not governed by USEF.[/QUOTE]
Fine, but the world is bigger than AQHA. Horses are shown in Western and saddleseat tack in parade, western dressage, western reining, and many breeds. Those competitions are governed by USEF.
I agree that many western riders will mock somebody wearing a helmet as a defence mechanism due to the helmet Nazis mocking riders who choose not to wear a helmet. Any state helmet law I am aware of makes an exception for competitions. As in a helmet is not required by law at a competition, ex. an AQHA show.
And you think that when someone sues, they will only sue USEF? When that $10 million verdict comes down because the sanctioning body didn’t require helmets in competition, that sanctioning body will require helmets, and so will any other sanctioning body. Unless they are really stupid enough to wait until they get a multi-million dollar judgement of their own.
Just for the record, while the USEF has some sanctioned reining events, the vast majority are governed by the NRHA, which is not subordinate to USEF. NRHA rules allow for the use of a helmet or a cowboy hat, but don’t require helmets - not even for youth events.
I’m not commenting on right or wrong, just on what is.
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