How to legally handle this situation?

[SammiG23]

Advanced notice this will be a long post & not sure if it is in the right location…A little bit of background. I board my 2 mares at a private residence. At the end of June 2014, the barn owner went and picked up a very neglected Thoroughbred.

She knew the horse’s owner from her previous church. The horse’s owner claims that she was keeping this horse at another property and that the owner had not been feeding the horse. Note: she had not seen the horse since Jan/Feb 2014 and then decided to move him in June. The horse is 16.2hh and at the time of being moved weighed about 715lbs.

Fast forward to now, the owner of the horse has only been out at my current barn once to give the barn owner $100 for moving the horse & board for the month(stating that was all she could afford) Also that doesn’t even cover the pasture board price for one month.

I decided that the horse needed more care than the owner & barn owner were providing and I started taking care of him. So my question is how do I go about getting the ownership of the horse signed over to me. She is not returning barn owners phone calls & I do not have her contact info. I know that I have done all of this volunterily, but I am just worried that one day she will just show up and take him.

Barn owner doesn’t seem all that concerned with the situation, but then again I have been providing all of his care since the second week he arrived at my current barn; feeding, farrier, & vet.

[gumshoe]

It depends on your laws. Where I am, the BO would have to take the horse to auction with appropriate notice given.

[MuddyHalter]

I’d think the cleanest and easiest method would be to purchase the horse. Offer a nominal but reasonable amount given the horse and situation ($500? $800? something like that) and perhaps the owner will be glad to be free of the responsibilities, which she apparently cannot handle.

[Highflyer]

If you are just a boarder, not the barn owner, it’s unlikely you can force her to sign over ownership. The barn owner would need to legally pursue the horse owner for board, and hope she opts to sign over ownership rather than paying/ moving the horse in the middle of the night. Then the barn owner could give or sell you the horse. If you really want ownership, your best bet is to track down the horse owner and try to buy the horse for a small sum of money.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

Are you saying you have been obtaining vet and farrier care for this horse? With the owner’s permission, I assume? --If not, be aware that you potentially have liability for messing with someone else’s horse, especially if anything were to go wrong.

I agree with the other posters-- offering to buy this horse would be the cleanest solution.

[Abbie.S]

OK, hold up a second: YOU decided that the horse wasn’t getting enough care, so you took it upon yourself to give said horse, who is not yours and who you have no business touching, what you deem appropriate care?

I can see your heart is in the right place, but good Lord, you can’t just go and fiddle with someone else’s animal without expressed permission to do so…!

That said, if you worry for the animal’s health, have a chat with the owner and offer some amount of cash. Don’t mention what you think of her care or lack thereof, just say he is a nice horse, and you wonder if he is for sale.

But for now, PLEASE stop messing with him.

[lorilu]

you are setting yourself up for a nightmare. leave the horse alone, if neglect continues and BO does nothing, report to AC. Do not take care on yourself.

[kaitsmom]

Why would she move him? BO will apparently let her board for free and you pay for all his care. Your best option may be calling animal control and producing receipts for the care you provide because no one else will. Then tell them you don’t have it in your heart to discontinue care because he will suffer. They may send her a notice and try and make contact. They probably have the best shot of getting her to sign him over or inform her she needs to provide care and you can tall to her about buying the horse then.

[Bogie]

@SammiG23;7759352

I decided that the horse needed more care than the owner & barn owner were providing and I started taking care of him. So my question is how do I go about getting the ownership of the horse signed over to me. She is not returning barn owners phone calls & I do not have her contact info. I know that I have done all of this volunterily, but I am just worried that one day she will just show up and take him.

Bottom line? You can’t just have the ownership of the horse signed over to you. It doesn’t matter that you’ve been paying for his care. The owner didn’t ask you to do it and there was no agreement between you and the owner that you were to get legal ownership of the horse.

The owner is getting a good deal right now! Her horse is being cared for and it isn’t costing her a cent.

You have four options:

• Contact the owner and ask to be reimbursed or given the horse in lieu of payment
• Offer to buy the horse outright
• Stop paying for care
• Continue paying for the care but understanding that no one asked you to do it.

FYI – I was in a situation where an owner could not pay for the care of her pony. I offered to help find the pony a home and payed board/veterinary care until that happened. In lieu of cash payment, the owner boarded my dogs for me when I traveled until she had repaid me.

[californianinkansas]

Why don’t you just offer to buy the horse and be done with it?

[SammiG23]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;7759502]
OK, hold up a second: YOU decided that the horse wasn’t getting enough care, so you took it upon yourself to give said horse, who is not yours and who you have no business touching, what you deem appropriate care?
But for now, PLEASE stop messing with him.[/QUOTE]

I did have one conversation with horses owner, in which I talked to her about giving him a bath & feeding him. Also told her that if she would like we could split the farm call when my vet came out for shots.

She thanked me for helping take care of the horse & that she had no problem with paying vet bills or anything he needs. So although she never said do A,B,C but not D. She is aware of what I had done for the horse, or she would not have thanked me for it.

Since then myself nor the barn owner have been able to get current contact information.

[Calamber]

This is very kind of you to do this but the only way for you to gain ownership of this horse is if there has been no contact or payment for the horse for over 30 days, a lien (agister’s or stablemen’s) would have to be processed by the barn/property owner who, I am sure, has no interest in doing so if you are paying for/caring for the horse. First step is to see if you can get the BO to do this (you can offer to do the legwork), depending on the state law you can either bid on the horse at auction if that is required, or just take ownership through a deal with the BO after the necessary legal requirements are met, some state’s require you to post notice in a public place (courthouse or newspaper) for the auction and a registered letter has to be sent to the last available address to the owner who abandoned him.

North Carolina property lien law as applicable to boarding horses. Section 3, number C.

http://statutes.laws.com/north-carolina/Chapter_44A/GS_44A-2

Satisfaction of the lien, it is actually easier in North Carolina because this is not a motor vehicle so unless the owner contacts the BO within 10 days of notice of lien (must be filed at courthouse), there is no need for a public sale, and a private sale can be negotiated.

(2) If the property uponwhich the lien is claimed is other than a motor vehicle required to beregistered, the lienor following the expiration of the 30-day period providedby subsection (a) shall issue notice to the person having legal title to theproperty, if reasonably ascertainable, and to the person with whom the lienordealt if different by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested.Such notice shall state that a lien has been asserted against specific propertyand shall identify the lienor, the date that the lien arose, the general natureof the services performed and materials used or sold for which the lien isasserted, the amount of the lien, and that the lienor intends to sell theproperty in satisfaction of the lien. The notice shall inform the recipientthat the recipient has the right to a judicial hearing at which time adetermination will be made as to the validity of the lien prior to a saletaking place. The notice shall further state that the recipient has a period of10 days from the date of receipt in which to notify the lienor by registered orcertified mail, return receipt requested, that a hearing is desired and that ifthe recipient wishes to contest the sale of his property pursuant to such lien,the recipient should notify the lienor that a hearing is desired. The noticeshall state the required information in simplified terms and shall contain aform whereby the recipient may notify the lienor that a hearing is desired bythe return of such form to the lienor. Failure of the recipient to notify thelienor within 10 days of the receipt of such notice that a hearing is desiredshall be deemed a waiver of the right to a hearing prior to sale of theproperty against which the lien is asserted and the lienor may proceed toenforce the lien by public or private sale as provided in this section. If thelienor is notified within the 10-day period provided above that a hearing isdesired prior to sale, the lien may be enforced by sale as provided in thissection only pursuant to the order of a court of competent jurisdiction.

© Private Sale. ?Sale by private sale may be made in any manner that is commercially reasonable.If the property upon which the lien is claimed is a motor vehicle, the sale maynot be made until notice is given to the Commissioner of Motor Vehiclespursuant to G.S. 20-114©. Not less than 30 days prior to the date of theproposed private sale, the lienor shall cause notice to be mailed, as providedin subsection (f) hereof, to the person having legal title to the property, ifreasonably ascertainable, to the person with whom the lienor dealt ifdifferent, and to each secured party or other person claiming an interest inthe property who is actually known to the lienor or can be reasonablyascertained. Notices provided pursuant to subsection (b) hereof shall besufficient for these purposes if such notices contain the information requiredby subsection (f) hereof. The lienor shall not purchase, directly orindirectly, the property at private sale and such a sale to the lienor shall bevoidable.

(d) Request for PublicSale. ? If an owner, the person with whom the lienor dealt, any secured party,or other person claiming an interest in the property notifies the lienor priorto the date upon or after which the sale by private sale is proposed to be made,that public sale is requested, sale by private sale shall not be made. Afterrequest for public sale is received, notice of public sale must be given as ifno notice of sale by private sale had been given.

• See more at: http://statutes.laws.com/north-carolina/Chapter_44A/GS_44A-4#sthash.l1qtIEYz.dpuf

All the best, I hope you can get him signed over to you.

[ReSomething]

Current contact information - if she has moved and the PO is forwarding her mail you can get that address by putting “address correction requested” on the front of the letter, a couple of spaces below the return address is a good spot, nice and clear. I think it costs 50 cents or so nowadays.

If she’s just run away altogether, and stopped paying board, then there are legal avenues that the BO (who has a contract with her I hope) must pursue before OP can buy the horse from the BO.

In any case OP needs to be careful about caring for someone else’s horse - there are no “rights” you acquire from treating a horse as your own, that’s called horse theft not adverse possession.

[OverandOnward]

When I saw the title, before reading, I thought “doesn’t have a contract”. And, sure enough …

Owner said the key words: “all I can afford”. That is another way of saying “I can’t afford a horse”, as they are a bottomless well of issues. It doesn’t matter that she said she’ll give him anything, she’s just trying to shoo you away.

One tactic would be to get an intelligent list of everything he really needs right now, and what it all costs each and every month. Include rehab, vet support, medication if any, supplements … the works, but not the extras.

Approach her with both of you agreeing that you want the best for this horse. That he already suffered tremendously because he wasn’t getting what he needed. Then go over the list of everything he needs now and going foward.

Then express your sincere best wishes to give him EVERYTHING on the list, and more, and “I know this is very hard to hear as it is hard for me to ask, but I only feel I can do this if I own him 100%. Would you be willing to sign him over to me so I can do this for him?”

If you can’t get her to sign the horse over, start negotiating a purchase. But NOT until you already have her seeing this horse as a huge, ongoing, endless burden. Right now she may see him as an affordable ornament doing no harm to her financially.

Show the need, and once she agrees, then present the answer - you.

Why do you want this horse? Just to rescue? Will you keep it, rehome, sell?

But I wonder why you seem to have wanted to go the legal route before approaching the owner about a sale?

[Calamber]

The owner is not reachable per previous post.

[ponysize]

You can’t just assume ownership of the horse or have it signed over to you other than by the willingness of the owner. Only the BO can due to unpaid board bills, but there is a process and there are more variables involved.

Having said that, a good lawyer could probably make it happen. If the current owner does not have a bill of sale, is not in possession of the animal, there isn’t a boarding contract, and can’t put forth any documentation showing they are the owner (such as vet bills, farrier bills, etc), then there is a way to get the horse. I know of a case where someone lost their horse through a lease that didn’t have in the contract what was supposed to happen when the lease ended. It didn’t expressly state that the horse was to be returned. Leassee’s brother was a lawyer. To the real owner, it was going to cost more in lawyer and court fees than the value of the horse to get it back.