How to ride more German?

COTH published an article not too long ago about young horses that come from Europe and the time it takes to “Americanize” them. I’ll probably do a terrible job summarizing it, but it basically captured the exact situation you are describing. Our basis in the American Forward Seat, based on the past French and Italian calvary seat, is what you are used to. And the horse is used to the more European classical seat, which is more dressage based.

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Canter improves trot. So canter, then take his hind legs into a good working trot with a light hand. Don’t dump him after canter. He probably finds that strange.

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Agreed- this sounds more like a “needs more leg than exists” issue and maybe it’s a hot take but I think OP may be better served with more American trainers who are working to get the horse maintaining its own motor more rather than having all the pro rides be with more input than OP is likely to have physical capacity for. I don’t think I’ve ever seen hours in the gym create the “more leg” that gets them forward, just hours in the saddle. If you have a German horse and German trainers and are an American amateur who came up under the American system, I don’t think suddenly learning to ride like Hans the 6’2 German man with mile long legs of steel from doing 12 horses a day for the past decade is realistic if that’s what it takes for a horse to go well. Core strength won’t hurt but at some point Dobbin needs to learn to speak English as much as OP needs to speak German.

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Right, OP, @Railbird’s points are REALLY important if you ever need to sell or lease this horse down the road. I’m an amateur that dabbles in importing/selling this type as a side hustle and they simply HAVE to get Americanized.

It doesn’t mean that he’ll ever be a two-point, float-the-rein type horse, but you are an American amateur living and riding in the U.S. It’s quite reasonable to want and need a horse to adapt to how you ride. I don’t know that working with German trainers who are capable of cantering the horse around perfectly and going, “Look, it’s so easy!” are doing him or you a service.

Depending on the horse, this can take a month or a year. I have a 9-year-old Dutch mare who’s been over here about a year now, jumped to 1.30m in Europe, and JUST this fall has all the American hunter/equitation flatwork clicked — let me tell you how much more enjoyable she is to ride now. Stop trying to ride in a style that you never have and never will be capable of and train your horse is my take. :woman_shrugging:

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I bought my then 6 year old BWP jumper at 50. I’m just going to say, as a lifelong hunter rider, dressage would be your friend. My horse has way more scope than I’ll ever need, but even as a hunter, we never understood how basic dressage isn’t instilled in riders (and horses).

It really isn’t “German” riding :roll_eyes: , though may be more of the horse has been ridden by men or stronger women (that was the case with my horse) so it took a lot more feel than just looping the reins.

As an older ammy (54) on a jumper that can cruise around the .90, seriously reconsider at least basic dressage. It’ll only help no matter what direction you go- hunter or jumper . I mean- some of the turns you get at the .90 require more than pulling on the reins. Using your leg and seat etc to help turn. Again- basic dressage.

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Call me crazy, but I wonder if the horse (and you) could learn to be LESS German. Go ahead and sit light. Make him round. When he’s round, let go. By let go, I mean very soft contact. When he gets not round, repeat. The duration you can let go get longer and longer in time. Forget dressage, and study some good western riders. I am not saying I love all their training methods, but they do understand collect and release. I mean “round” and “collect” in the sense of the balance and frame you ultimately desire. This is highly dependent on how the horse wants to go and its natural balance, some are low, some are high. He will learn, they would rather be ridden soft and in their more natural frame than cranked on. Watch him in the pasture, how does he like to go? That is your baseline.

Also, with regard to the yanking … I got a new one that did that. Rooted on the reins. I put him in a rubber baby pelham (Trust inno sense). I rode on the snaffle rein, but when he rooted, he would hit the curb rein all by himself. Six months or so later, I’m not sure why, but he doesn’t do it anymore, so he got to a rubber snaffle.

As far as leg, yes use as much as it takes, but also practice feeling a deep calf-on leg, not a heel/spur leg. They much prefer it. A couple of mine will actually get less forward with the wrong leg.

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Explore the mysteries of the half-halt :wink: (first you have to achieve balance. At 6yo a warmblood is still growing))

https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/training/mysteries_of_the_half-halt_revealed_101210/

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Ok, OP, you have a lot of information here. I am mostly going to echo @Railbird and @Tha_Ridge in their thoughts. I also maybe don’t think this is as much of an issue as you’re worrying about. You say that he’s a great ammy horse in just about every other way, he doesn’t pull to the jumps, he’s fun to trail ride, etc. You also say that you show at .90, which is a nice and forgiving height.

I would just ride with a dressage whip (hell, ride with one in each hand to start, lol) and just give your leg a little help in a way that he would understand if he’s been EU trained. Start with a nice forward canter in your flatwork and THEN come back to trot. If he gets behind your leg, give him a tap with your dressage whip. Just get him going forward and I think everything else will be easier.

For .90 you don’t need to be flatting him around like he’s a 2nd level horse. Just get him in front of your leg, straight, and once you’re not working so hard to get him forward I think everything else will get easier. Especially if your trainers still ride him 1-2 a week, that should be plenty to keep him fit and happy enough to do what you want to do, at least for now.

He might still be growing a touch at 6, so keep that in mind, too!

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This right here.

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Yes, and no.

A weak core, weak hamstrings, lack of body stability to not allow the upper body to flop around while trying to use legs, are vastly improved by appropriate fitness work. Excellent runners spend time in the gym to work on muscle and balance and stability in order to improve their running. Every professional athlete spends time in the gym to improve their tennis/football/baseball/soccer.

Riders aren’t any different.

Yes, 100%, spending time practicing the sport has to be part of it. But the duration and amount of “leg” used while riding, is tiny compared to the amount of strength, and the body control to properly use that strength, that comes from appropriate workouts in the gym. Then the HOW to use your leg comes from actually riding, with your gym-level fitness there to back up what you need to be doing

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THIS,

Yes nothing can “replace” saddle time ever. But in ADDITION to saddle time

(and the more, the better - hence I mentioned taking additional lessons on a schoolmaster so OP can up hours per week to be greater than 3, somewhere between 5 -10 hours of saddle time a week would be ideal 2x a day 5 times a week or as a working adult on the weekends - ride 3 or 4 horses of your trainer’s)

you need to be ABLE to execute the riding techniques, which is supported by cross training just like any other athlete.

JUST riding is not sufficient if you’re a nearing 50 year old working adult ammy.
Just riding isn’t even appropriate for a pro although I could see how a busy, not high income earning pro feels like they couldn’t spare the time, but that is a logical fallacy for so many reasons.

Take a look at the workouts posted by ranging levels of competent showjumpers, eventers, and dressage riders - pros aren’t the only one who take cross training and strength/mobility/stability seriously. happy to link some of their content if anyone is interested

Also - Katie is great
https://www.theequestrianphysio.ca/

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Yes, but the 3.5 tennis players and 5k participants of the world should be able to enjoy their hobbies as amateurs with reasonable baseline fitness. If you have been playing hobby tennis and running short distances your whole life and suddenly require a high level cross training routine to do the activity at the same level, it merits a conversation about why that is the case.

This is not realistic for most people with jobs and families and in the standard hunter/jumper program where if you want a horse to ride, you need to own it. I’m sorry that being a size 6 was so challenging for you that it required an extensive fitness routine to overcome that adversity, but OP should be able to enjoy riding her horse without having to ride 5 days a week and work out 5 days a week.

Again, not saying that exercise and fitness won’t improve the flopping/contact/stability/etc but fundamentally OP has a german horse being ridden by german trainers and is probably taking lessons from a german-school dressage instructor. If the choices are that she should have to be professional athlete level fit to be able to keep her horse together at the trot or get some guidance on how to meet in the middle here with the horse, I think that it’s more realistic to figure out the latter.

Disclaimer: I am operating under the assumption that as stated, OP has been riding her whole life and does not have these same struggles on a horse with its own motor and is fit and balanced enough to jump around a course of jumps when not trying to play the pushmepullyou game to put him together on the flat. Therefore, I assume there is a reasonable degree of fitness, not like watching a beginner bounce around trying to sit the canter and steer at the same time.

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This feels right. I work out at the gym, and have plenty-strong legs and core, and I still don’t really ride a “more leg” horse well. At this stage of my riding career, I just select for animals that naturally want to be in front of my leg or can be encouraged to respond to lighter aids with some transition exercises or strategic taps with the whip. I guess this means I don’t speak German :joy:

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Given that - OP likely needs to switch trainers who are willing to modify the horse’s existing training OR sell him and find a more suitable animal

I agree it is not always feasible at 50 to modify the way you ride.

I can relate - I actually struggle to ride H/J horses as I am at my core a dressage rider - the canter transition on a European trained dressage horse is almost opposite an American HJ horse.

OP asked how to ride more German - I provided the answer to that question.

And I work a LOT and have had my entire career with horses funded by me, myself and i. I leased and paid extra to ride other horses. As a former IB/ PE fund employee, now in tech, I know what it is like to feel pressed for time. I billed 90 hr weeks for a decade. I either reduced my expectations of myself or put in the time and money to be able to ride 4 horses a day on weekends and paid a pretty penny to access that. No kids though you’ve got me there - rather be riding to be fair!

Working out 10 hours a week is not pro athlete status – that is just not being sedentary

the newest studies recommend about 300 minutes a week of vigorous exercise (5 hours) - which is at or beyond zone 2. Or 600 minutes of moderate exercise (zone 2) which is 10 hours.

The study notes that “any combination of medium to high levels” of vigorous (75 to 300 minutes per week) and moderate physical activity (150 to 600 minutes per week) “can provide nearly the maximum mortality reduction,” which is about 35% to 42%.

Additionally, people who are insufficiently active—meaning less than 75 minutes per week of vigorous or less than 150 minutes of moderate physical activity—could get greater benefits in mortality reduction by adding modest levels of either exercise. That’s 75 to 150 minutes per week of vigorous exercise or 150 to 300 minutes each week of moderate physical activity. Meeting the minimum for moderate and vigorous activity can reduce cardiovascular disease mortality by 22% to 31%.

Note this is just for major mortality - NOT for people who are participating in a SPORT like riding - riding is a sport and we should treat it like one. You wouldn’t enter into a Muy Thai ammy fight without … both sparring (riding) and hitting the gym to make sure you can support your techniques in the ring (applicable to martial arts and riding).

Americans have a warped view on how much activity is considered normal – not our fault though. Late stage capitalism sucks the life out of all of us (literally!)

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I don’t disagree. There’s a difference between a “reasonable baseline fitness” and a level of fitness that’s conducive to all around health. JUST running leaves your upper body and even much of your core, not in the shape it really should be in. JUST playing tennis makes you lopsided in your strength and flexibility and mobility. If that’s ok with you, that’s great. But the OP is a rider who wants to improve her riding and admits she has basically no core. Riding alone isn’t going to fix that

This isn’t even about a “high level cross training routine”. It’s about a reasonable level of fitness, which really should be more than just “I ride one horse a day”

I have seen that most people have way more time to do 20 minute workouts 4-5 days a week than they think they do. It’s an automatic thought that something like that is added to your existing list of things you do and the time it takes you do to them, but rarely does someone take the time to sit down, write down alllll the things they do and the time they spend doing it AND being honest about it (most people spend way more time scrolling social media than they realize or want to admit to). Many things that actually have to be done are done inefficiently, and many things don’t need to be done at all, or only done less frequently.

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This is where OP has mismatched expectations of themselves and the horse.

someone wanting to enjoy their ammy hobby maybe shouldn’t have a young European import that hasn’t been Americanized or at least shouldn’t have one without the plan to Americanize it to suit their riding style.

Feels like OP wants to do “more” than just enjoy the hobby given the choice of animal they have… hence young, imported, Euro-style horse… someone who has been riding all their life at 50 would… know that the riding styles are incredibly different and likely would have sat on a European trained horse before purchasing this one… especially since their trainers are European…

but I cannot speak for them!

If theyre in CA. someone like Nick Haness would be a good trainer to Americanize the horse - as a European trainer I don’t think will want to (or be able to…)

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Yep we are making the same point :wink:

I have a working theory that whoever sold OP the horse didn’t expect it would be enjoyable for her to ride without them doing a lot of training to translate, and OP’s european trainers see no need to train the horse to accommodate her style of riding. Not sure when the program changed or why, but it stood out to me. This is colored somewhat by being yelled at by a Romanian dressage instructor that my position was so ineffective and terrifying that he fears for my child growing up without a mother the week after I won at WEF - it can be very very different and if someone doesn’t understand how to speak both languages, it’s hard to translate. I’m pretty capable at what I do without having to make poor Radu quiver in fear that my toes turn out, so ultimately it wasn’t as useful to me as it was entertaining.

Horse sounds like a good egg but if OP is having to ask the internet how to turn into Hans or Johann in her late 40s to get her horse to stop yanking on her when she’s trying to trot around after work, something is missing that I don’t think gym time will fix if no one involved with them on a day to day basis has said it’s a fitness issue and instead is just telling her to learn to ride more like them.

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It’s not one or the other. Gym time IS needed, both from a general fitness level, and to fix the OP’s " Basically I have no core and maintaining contact while being active feels a bit forced, especially since he sometimes yanks the reins. "

Yes, there’s a communication issue between horse and rider to the point that the horse is needing or wanting to yank the reins. But someone riding 90cm (2.9" for those who haven’t done the conversion) should be strong enough to have a stable seat while not allowing the horse to yank her out of position, or needing to be so stiff that doesn’t happen. That’s what has to come from the gym, and then finessed in the saddle.

It sounds like this horse is a kind soul who would be willing to re-learn. I don’t think it’s a year-long endeavor. I DO think it’s going to require a trainer who has the end goal of a light horse in mind. It doesn’t sound like the OP ever had to work with a true push horse, so only had to worry about keeping position while in motion, rather than doing a lot to affect the horse in any significant manner. It’s just different

It’s honestly not rocket science to re-train a horse to be more forward. It just takes being 100% consistent and fair in what and how you’re asking. THAT was the lesson I had to learn when I was made to realize my big energy-conserving WB was not working nearly as hard as he was leading me to believe. And what many don’t also realize, is that this starts from the minute you take your horse out of the field or stall. I carried a dressage whip with me at all times for months, partly as a reminder to myself, but also as backup. He was to march right along with me out of the stall from Step 1. He was to march right along with me off the mounting block from Step 1. Zero slug steps were tolerated, and for a while, that meant short rides, 20 minutes even as the start, because physically AND mentally, that was hard work for him. Go means GO, it means go NOW, and until that gets under control, it doesn’t matter what it looks like. You can’t shape horse if you don’t have the energy, so if he dumps on his forehand or throws his head in the air, or canters when you all you asked for was a bigger trot, in his effort to GO, that’s fine, for now. That’s his balance issue, and he’ll get better at it the stronger and more appropriate reactive he becomes.

It’s a mindset shift, and if you make that decision, it really doesn’t take long, it’s not complicated, it’s just 100% consistency the entire time you have control of the horse, from halter on, to turning back out/putting in the stall.

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Yes! I can relate 100% to this. I have chosen the unpopular route that I WANT to be able to speak both languages. I am currently riding a horse that is a push ride, a hunter / eq horse. We lose power sometimes after fences because I… yep, don’t have enough damn leg coming in.

Our flatting is great, but as a more novice jumper rider (.90cm was my max course height and I’ve jumped a handful of 1.10s out of grids ever) who jumped her first fence at 25 after not jumping since 13… I just don’t have that muscle memory to ride this different style of way way way more leg.

I have always ridden hotter, sensitive dressage horses and forward, catty European WB jumpers - WHO ALL CANTERED OFF INSIDE LEG & you literally had to half halt every 10 strides and WOAH into oxers.

I am doing literally .70s for the foreseeable future until I can ride with enough leg for current horse. It is embarrassing and hard, but I am choosing to do it because well… I’m a perfectionist and a glutton for a challenge.

Hence I am hitting the gym, losing weight, riding more and reducing my current expectations. I know I will not be jumping this horse .90cm for the foreseeable future - and I am OKAY and PLEASED with my journey. I have a huge amount of trainer support, but I know that said eq horse who is north of 16 is not going to be retrained to suit me. If I was shopping I MAY not have bought this horse that I am currently enjoying a learning process on.

I want to be able to switch between different types of rides with some degree of competency. I’m 34 and don’t own currently, so I like to keep my future lease options open by being able to ride a variety of styles of horses.

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No one said that.

At some point, one can no longer ride to stay fit, but has to get fit to stay riding.

Pilates is the easiest answer. I do one long mat class per week and a 12 minute workout two or three times a week. The workout can be done on a towel on the floor of any hotel room in your pajamas.

This is pretty much what I do:

Whatever retraining your horse needs, any ammy rider over age 40 needs to do core work.

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