How to ride more German?

[Chestnut24]

I have a super sweet and athletic 6yr warmblood, he did 110 cm with my former trainer and with me (older Ammy) does 90 cm. He has a good attitude and will jump anything.

My issue: he was trained in Germany and for flat work needs a rider to really keep him connected, otherwise he tends to hollow out. I am a scratch away from 50, and even though I try hard and take dressage lessons, I just struggle to get that feeling. Basically I have no core and maintaining contact while being active feels a bit forced, especially since he sometimes yanks the reins. Has anyone managed at a ripe age to adapt and ride more ‚German‘? Any tips what might have helped you?

My earlier days were with ponies and TBs who had their own go and you just had to be light and soft. That doesn‘t really work with my dude.

[CBoylen]

If he’s yanking the reins, your arms are too stiff. Remember riding on contact does not mean holding a forced contact. It’s closing the leg into a contact that is giving and taking through the bent elbow. In a very small motion, not flapping elbows like I see some people try to go to the other extreme…

[JB]

@Chestnut24

Basically I have no core

Working on that will take you 90% of the way to resolving your issues. The other 10% will be (re)learning how to use your body and building the muscle memory to make it second nature.

If he’s yanking reins, it’s either a learned habit, or you’re heavy-handed and without leg to back it up

@Chestnut24

My earlier days were with ponies and TBs who had their own go and you just had to be light and soft. That doesn‘t really work with my dude.

Every horse is capable of learning what you want him to learn in this context. Start over, with a good instructor if possible. Teach him how to be light in your hands, and responsive to your seat and legs

A 6yo who has been “hand ridden” for 3-4 years doesn’t have the underlying foundation for self-carriage, so you’ve got to start there.

I would probably start with no contact. Ask him to go forward, and don’t even pick up a rein for any reason than to steer with an open guiding hand (which means no backwards pressure). Teach him to halt softly with that same opening hand guiding him into a fence if needed, while you “stop riding” with your seat, and gently close your legs

Back to baby basics. He can absolutely learn to work lightly and softly

[Railbird]

Out of curiosity, given how you describe your riding, are you certain that this is the right horse for you regardless? The people who import a lot are great at teaching them to go for american amateurs, but it sounds like you bought this one as a 4/5 year old import and no longer work with that trainer- is it possible this is just too much horse?

[pony_grandma]

well you sit DEEP in the saddle, sit up straight, tuck those elbows in and yell out Jawohl.

[CanteringCarrot]

@pony_grandma

well you sit DEEP in the saddle, sit up straight, tuck those elbows in and yell out Jawohl.

[Amberley]

Keep taking dressage lessons and working on your core. There is not shortcut- it’s very simple but not easy to ride a horse back to front.

[IPEsq]

I tend to disagree with totally dropping the rein contact on a horse with this age and background unless you are a good young horse trainer and can do a total restart basically. He will get confused.

It’s not about putting him together with the hand. If he’s yanking, he is objecting to your hand, and he isn’t using his hind end. Your response to any yanking should be more leg. While the German style is to sometimes ride the horse more deep and round, the number one thing they do is send the horse forward from the hind legs. That is not necessarily fast. Don’t confuse it with fast. A baby might be sent on the faster side as they learn to build the strength for impulsion, but probably not your slightly farther along horse. They do this with more seat and leg contact than you are probably used to.

You will need core strength to do this in order for your aids to be independent and effective. You can teach the horse to get more sensitive to the seat and leg aids, but he must go forward. The feeling is of holding the hind legs in your reins. That means you have him over the back. Ideally, he can maintain this even with light rein contact, but he might not understand that because he was probably used to more support (stronger aids all around) and hand holding as the norm. The art of “Americanizing” these horses is teaching them to still carry themselves and have impulsion with the more forward seat style of riding.

[RAyers]

How to ride more German?

Date more Germans.

[CoffeeLover]

Maybe consider trying an Equicube (https://equicube.net)? I’m over 50 and found it really helped me figure out how to better engage my core, fix my hunter lean, and improve my contact - all of which strike me as riding more German. Here’s an older COTH thread with reviews that might help you decide if it could be helpful: Equicube.

[Chestnut24]

Wow, as usual, great insights out of COTH land…

Thanks for the replies!

No getting around core - I guess I keep hoping there is a way out, since body-memory is a real deal. I’m super busy in work/travel so fitting in another horizon like pilates or rowing machine or re-starting as rider on the longe (which would probably be best!) is daunting.

My trainers ARE German, lol, which sometimes makes it harder, because they cannot fathom how a person can ride without that feeling.

In canter the horse carries himself well and is pretty easy to motivate, it is mostly trot work where we get into trouble - if I try a huntery long-rein we both sort of exhale in relief, but then he does go on his forehand.

@IPEsq

The feeling is of holding the hind legs in your reins. That means you have him over the back.

Very nice visual, thanks!

@Railbird

Out of curiosity, given how you describe your riding, are you certain that this is the right horse for you regardless? The people who import a lot are great at teaching them to go for american amateurs, but it sounds like you bought this one as a 4/5 year old import and no longer work with that trainer- is it possible this is just too much horse?

Fair question… he would definitely come more into his potential with a better rider. But he is actually a great Amateur horse, because he is not strong to jumps, is a dream trail riding, and can carry me around 90cm without batting an eye. I definitely don’t want to ruin him with confused flatwork but with training and pro rides I try to keep a handle on it. I also try to ride out at least twice a week for both of us, just to work straight and energetic.

@pony_grandma

well you sit DEEP in the saddle, sit up straight, tuck those elbows in and yell out Jawohl.

Lol, I am going to give it a try, fake it til you make it!

[JB]

@Chestnut24

I’m super busy in work/travel so fitting in another horizon like pilates or rowing machine or re-starting as rider on the longe (which would probably be best!) is daunting.

Does it seem daunting because you feel the work will require an hour a day? 20 minutes a day, 4-5 days a week, is plenty to start out

@Chestnut24

In canter the horse carries himself well and is pretty easy to motivate, it is mostly trot work where we get into trouble - if I try a huntery long-rein we both sort of exhale in relief, but then he does go on his forehand.

IME, if a horse isn’t “right” at the trot, he’s not “right” at the canter, OR, you’re riding differently at the 2 gaits. If you’re “holding” him at the canter, his comfort zone, but not doing that the trot, he doesn’t know what to do.

[Words_of_Wisdom]

@JB

@Chestnut24

I’m super busy in work/travel so fitting in another horizon like pilates or rowing machine or re-starting as rider on the longe (which would probably be best!) is daunting.

Does it seem daunting because you feel the work will require an hour a day? 20 minutes a day, 4-5 days a week, is plenty to start out

Find a good pilates studio and do 45-60 mins on the reformer twice a week-- great for core strength and stability.

[JB]

that can do a lot of good for sure, but committing to 45-60 minutes at a stretch is daunting, or impossible, for a lot of people. 20 minutes 4 times a week would be more beneficial than 60 minutes twice a week

[greysfordays]

@JB

that can do a lot of good for sure, but committing to 45-60 minutes at a stretch is daunting, or impossible, for a lot of people. 20 minutes 4 times a week would be more beneficial than 60 minutes twice a week

Exactly. Do this a few times a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWjRCMB_mzY

It’s not even 20 minutes bc there’s a bunch of mumbo jumbo woo woo talking in the beginning, but if you can do this regularly throughout the week, you will be well on your way to being much stronger in the saddle. There is a lot of lower abs in particular.

Another thing to try would be driving rein, to see if you can get your elbow a little softer and also to gauge if you’re using your hands for balance.

[mika0116]

@Chestnut24

But he is actually a great Amateur horse, because he is not strong to jumps, is a dream trail riding, and can carry me around 90cm without batting an eye. I definitely don’t want to ruin him with confused flatwork but with training and pro rides I try to keep a handle on it.

I … wouldn’t want to jump a horse around .90cm course with the flatwork being as you described… jumping is flatwork with 10% of the canter strides having a fence under them - even if you’re a purely showjumping rider - hell even MORE so as a pure jumper.

I might be biased as a dressage rider turned H/J, but if your flatwork isn’t relatively consistent in all gaits - no sense doing more than cavaletti / super small stuff until you get it right. Likely with good instruction and gaining strength - 4-5x a week of 30 min rides both schooling flat, poles, cavaletti and hacking out - walking hills & 1 jump school by trainer … by March at the latest you’ll be in the right spot.

let your trainers jump school him bigger until then & ride a school master to keep your eye for things above .80cm

Also rider fitness is a huge thing. I’m 34 and gained some covid cheese weight (size 0/2 to a size 6) and I like had MONTHS of riding and working out (pilates, kettlebell, yoga, running) to regain core strength, My slightly elder peers at the barn says it only gets worse post 40 and 50… gotta make it a consistent habit. I hear you I traveled 42 flights a year before I changed industries pre pandemic.

[Posting_Trot]

I’d really emphasize trying to make room in your schedule for Pilates. You just can’t get away from developing your own core strength as a fundamental for riding well. Plus you’ll feel better generally!

Try it twice a week for four weeks and you can then reassess (if necessary).

[omare]

A steeplechase trainer who would get us riders to steady slow trot and pop logs -solid jumps - to get us to get the horses using their hind ends better–of course we definitely were not working out of a dressage seat–and might have to breeze up a hill next . I always thought it was interesting how he turned it on its head-and used jumps to get the horse off to lift their forehand. I believe he learned it from Kathy Kusner. Sometimes there is a varied number of tools in the tool box.

[Rumorhasit93]

Leg, leg, leg and more leg. Anytime he yanks the reins, add LEG.

Also, you want to feel like you’re leaning back. Basically, very upright, elastic elbow, LEG. This is how I ride my mare and she goes beautifully. If I deviate, she lets me know. This isn’t to say I can’t get out of the tack and let her go, but when we really get down to work, I tell myself to “get German”.

[DownYonder]

A friend with no shortage of experience once tried a young sale horse that had been in training with Ingrid Klimke. She commented that Ingrid obviously had legs “like iron” because the horse sort of ignored my friend’s leg. The trainer at the sales barn kept yelling stuff like “Mehr Bein!” and friend finally figured out she had to use a TON more leg for the horse to understand what she wanted. She said Ingrid had put a “super” foundation on the horse for someone used to riding with a lot of leg. My friend passed on it because her client was not capable of riding with that much leg and didn’t want to spend a ton of time re-tuning the horse. Friend referred a male rider to the horse and they were a perfect match - he had the leg strength the horse wanted.