my five year old gelding does not know how to lunge. He keeps coming close to the center and stopping. I am not sure how to fix this. Are there any suggestions/advice to fix this?
I would suggest a good book on Lungeing. Cherry Hill has one:
https://www.amazon.com/Longeing-Lini…/dp/0876050801
If you are trying to lunge in an open space (pasture, large ring, etc.), I’d say move to a round pen. If you aren’t trained to properly use a lunge whip, get a trainer to show you. If you don’t have a proper lunge whip, buy one. Cavaletti or even ground poles can be helpful - put them in a circle (with the horse outside them) and properly use your lunge whip and the tautness of the lunge line to keep the horse tracking just outside the poles. Proper use of praise and treats will go a long way - and keep the sessions short at first (so you and/or the horse don’t get too frustrated).
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How big a circle are you attempting to use? Teach him what you want at a walk on a very small circle and gradually make it bigger. In addition to the various gait commands teach him a command that means you want him to move further away from you (I use “out”).
The other question is what your longeing skills are like. I knew the basics and then had the ongoing opportunity to longe a horse who had been trained very well. She taught me a lot I would never have guessed.
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Answering RedHorses question: I’m starting in a lunge pen, I’ve had experience lungeing horses before riding but this is my first time with an unexperienced five year, he’s also a bit lazy
you lead him in a small circle, then you get him moving around you at a walk on a long cotton lead rope, then you gradually send him around further and further from you. You can longe a horse on a 20 metre circle with a ten foot lead rope if you walk a smaller circle inside the the radius of the longe circle. of course to do this you need to be able to send him around and move his hind end away from you, basic ground work. you can also have a partner lead him on a larger circle until he gets the hand of it. i wouldn’t worry about lazy too much, he probably has no idea what you are asking at all.
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Ditto Scribbler.
What he is doing at the moment is lunging you, as you have to stay at least behind his shoulder and not let him face you.
Agree with the above. The key is that you have to TEACH this. Meaning you have to break this down into tiny steps and find the point at which your horse does what you ask. It may only be moving away from your hand/whip if you stand 2 feet away using a lead rope. That is where you will need to start until that behavior is consistent.
I think I used to have the Cherry Hill book above, or another book that was spiral bound - the first 10-15 lessons were not using a lunge rope, and many weren’t “lunging” but were leading - with different expectations until they started morphing into pre-lunging, then lunging.
So be patient, and go back to the beginning. I really liked the book with lessons because it had a lot of fun sessions to do after the horse is trained.
I would find a trainer to help you. But at least for starters, the book recommended is a good one. There are a lot of puzzle pieces to teach first, before expecting him to stay out at the end of a 20m line and listen to voice and body cues 
he’s got to lead with you, not just follow.
He needs to walk when you say it, not always requiring you to move
He needs to learn that when you say Whoa, his feet plant and he doesn’t move or turn either way.
He needs to learn that when you point the whip toward his shoulders or hips, he moves them out.
He needs to learn that when the whip starts going in front of his shoulders, he slows or stops
He needs to learn proper giving to pressure so he’s not pulling on the lunge line
Depending on how much you really know, vs how much the trained horses knew what to do, your body language may be confusing him, and that’s one of the biggest reasons to get someone in person to help
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^
This!
If you don’t have access to a knowledgeable trainer AND are confident you can read a horse’s body language, you could try this:
Start with the horse on a 10’ cotton lead (so it won’t burn if pulled/ripped from your hand) & dressage whip.
Make a triangle with you as the apex, horse as the base.
Ask horse to walk around you, staying at his shoulder & gradually letting out the lead.
Ypu can make your own smaller circle or stay in place.
Use the whip at his hock - stay aware he may kick at this - touch gently asking for him to move forward, at his chest to ask for halt.
If he swings his hip out to face you at halt, ask for walk again to straighten him.
When he will reliably walk & halt at length of the lead, staying on the arc of the circle, switch to a longeline & longe whip.
Keep the lash furled, just use the length of the whip to cue same as on the lead.
Start with the familiar 10’, then gradually let out the line until he is walking/halting on the full 20’ circle.
You can now use the lash, but no cracking, just let it wave loosely as you cue for forward.
When walk to halt to walk is going smoothly you can ask for trot, but be prepared for Rodeo.
If you cannot effectively use your body to stop the fireworks let go.
Better to have him loose than to get dragged.
Of course, you will need to have the space - arena or round pen - to yourself.
Once he is calmly working W/T/H, you can start softly using the popper.
Again, first time he hears the “crack”- no matter how soft it sounds to you - it may get a strong reaction.
Once walk, trot & halt are established you can ask for canter.
Same as for initiating trot, you may get waaaay more than you want.
Patience is the key & slow progress is your goal.
No prizes for getting to the end result fast!
Hope this helps. :encouragement:
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Oh, and always wear gloves. A helmet is probably a good idea too, if there is any chance he’s going to knock you over.
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Just thought I’d add that even something as seemingly insignificant as how you attach the lungeline to the halter/bridle/cavesson can effect your success at lungeing - even a trained horse.
The lunge line itself can also make a difference. Get one without a chain (which is pretty standard these days), a good swivel snap, and those little rubber pucks at the human end make them easy (and more comfortable) to hang on to when fully extended. I prefer cotton webbing to nylon, but that’s more a personal preference. The nylon do come in more fun colors. I just think the cotton is easier on human hands and if it does get wrapped around a leg (horse or human) won’t burn or scrape as badly as the nylon.
And good idea from @Scribbler to always wear gloves when lungeing. Palms missing skin are no fun… ask me how I know! 
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I agree that you might need some help. Teaching a horse to lunge in a round pen should be a really easy thing to do. If you are having problems , help from someone more knowledgable to get you both going will take the guess work ( frustrations) out of it.
If you are in a round pen/longe pen, you can teach him to work with your body language and a longe whip. If you position yourself behind the drive line (his shoulder) you can easily keep him going with encouragement from your whip (start by just lifting it) and voice. To get him to slow, you can step in front of the drive line and use your body language and voice to slow him down. I teach “hooo, walk” and “walk ON” when laziness occurs, “aaaaaaand trot?” for the upward trot (the lead in prepares him and the upward inflection is for the trot only) and “hoooo trot” for downwards “and caaaaaanTER.” for the canter. Horses pick up on the verbal cues pretty fast. I also flick my wrist to flick the lash at the horse saying “OOOUUTT” when the horse is falling in. I’ll flick his belly with the lash to reinforce this if necessary.
I also can longe with a line and side reins using the same cues in a regular arena (I actually rarely use our round pen). I think once they learn that they keep a certain distance from you, they get the exercise. I have longed my current horse almost exclusively on the long line in large arenas. Now, I can “free longe” him without tack or a halter in the arena and he listens to voice commands and stays on the circle around me. They learn the routine and if you train them well, they learn to listen to you even if they don’t have to (my horse could very easily go to the other end of the arena and ignore me).
Finding someone to help you may be your best bet. If you are not particularly experienced in “pressure and release” methods, it’s going to be quite difficult for you to teach your horse through these methods (which is what I would recommend in this situation). It often takes a while for people who are not necessarily experienced in this method to pick up on it even on an experienced horse, as it requires very specific timing. If the timing is off on a green horse, you may end up confusing it more and creating a horse that is frustrated and unwilling because he can’t find the “right” answer. Imagine being asked the same question over and over and getting reprimanded every time you tried to answer it… wouldn’t you become “unwilling”?
Here is what I do with my babies. Before I even get to lunging any of the youngsters that I work with, I do a fair amount of other groundwork with them. I want them to understand the concept of moving away from pressure in a calm way, and be able to move their bodies every which way. Some people like to go directly to the round pen first thing, but I find the following methods to be productive and work for me personally.
Assuming the horse is halterbroke, I begin by setting the ground rules of walking in hand. I have the expectation that the horse will walk next to me in a calm manner, an appropriate distance from me, and pay attention. He/she should stop when I stop, turn when I turn, etc. If the attention wanders or if they are on top of me, they are going to need to move their feet. If these ground rules aren’t in place, I find it more difficult to move on.
Next, I teach moving off of pressure. I usually start by teaching the horse to disengage his/her hindquarters on both sides. I swing the end of my rope at the hindquarters, increasing pressure until the horse steps under himself with his hind leg. Eventually, the goal is to step towards the haunches with purpose and the horse should move over. This is helpful when asking the horse to halt on the lunge line later on.
Then, I use the back of my hand in the girth area and apply pressure. The horse should move sideways. Eventually, the goal is a nice half pass, but any sideways motion is great at first. This is not only helpful for when you teach your horse lateral work under saddle, but it’s also helpful for the horse to understand this general “moving sideways away from pressure” when teaching your horse to lunge.
I also teach the horse to move his shoulder over, to yield to pressure on the poll and put his head down (very useful for haltering and when it comes to bridling), etc.
Finally, I’m at the lunging stage with the horse. If I have access to a round pen, wonderful. This makes it easier. But I’m going to go along with the assumption that you do not, and I typically don’t. So: I typically start facing the horse with the horse a good distance away from myself (you may need to teach your horse to stand first). If I want the horse to turn and go to my left, I lift my left hand and point to the left (I want this to be my cue in the future). I then back that cue up by swinging my rope in my right hand at the horse. The horse may try all sorts of different answers… backing up, etc. But I keep swinging until the horse gets the right answer… moving to my left. The first few times are NOT going to be circular and that’s okay. My only expectation now is that I point, I back that up with the rope and the horse moves in that direction. Once that is understood, I expect walking in a circle. This may require repeated pointing and backing that up with the rope, but the horse knows this cue now, so that’s straightforward. Personally, I like the horse to be able to walk around me in a circle consistently, halt and face me (by using the disengaging of the hindquarters taught previously) and turn either way (also taught previously) before I advance. Then I teach the “over” cue. I use the command “out!” and step towards the horse. I teach it by swinging my rope, starting from behind me and sweeping it over the ground towards the horse. The horse knows how to yield to rope pressure so the answer of “move sideways” should be an easy transition and should only need reinforcing. Now I have a polite horse that can walk, stop, turn and stay out on a circle. Only then do I ask for more forwards motion into the trot and eventually the canter.
The rapidity of progression is going to vary horse to horse. Some horses have a longer attention span than others, some are more eager to please and others would really prefer to just go eat grass somewhere far away from you, and so the specific horse needs to be taken into account when training anything in my opinion. Some horses can have all of that down in 2 days. Some require much longer. So have patience! Everyone has very different methods for training a young horse, some do extensive groundwork, some very little, some round pen, some do not. That is just my specific way of doing things that works for me. I strongly suggest getting a trainer or instructor to help you, at least the first couple of times. The timing of pressure/release is very important. If you consistently release the pressure you are applying before the horse gives the correct answer, you’re creating a horse that knows he doesn’t have to give the correct answer and may pick up bad habits (and probably also doesn’t understand what you’re asking). If you consistently release the pressure not quickly enough, you will create a frustrated horse that doesn’t understand the right answer and may be unwilling to try. Good luck!
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Thank you for the suggestions/advice!
I understand that people end up trying to train horses when they have no idea how to do so and It is great to ask for help.
However, horses are not easy. You can not train a horse “the basics” safely, by asking people online to instruct you. Begin with an actual, live instructor and then do your homework with books.
This horse now has a “bad kicking habit” according to your new thread. This is a serious problem. Please find help in person, before a bystander, their horse, or you and your horse, are hurt.:yes:
One more thing- you said he is 5 and that he turns in to face you. If he has been worked at liberty in a round pen many people teach the Join Up, and the horse is supposed to turn and face the human when he stops. This can be harder to deal with than you’d think and you need to train him that there is another way to stop, that sometimes he doesn’t turn in and that’s what you want. The how to advice given is good, but just a thought that you may be dealing with more than an animal who doesn’t know anything. He might think this is what you want.
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:yes: @Hilary may be onto something.
My Hackney Pony did the same Turn-To-Face when I first longed him.
He was 8yo & broke to drive. Also his idea of longeing was to blast around at warpspeed with his knees in his ears < typical of the breed.
Without knowing if he’d been trained to turn to face me, I did know the speed & knees were desirable for a Roadster or Pleasure Hackney.
Getting him long & low was easier than getting him to stop & stay on the circle.
That took a lot of stepping into his line of drive, along with a long, drawnout “Whoooooaaaaa”.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹
What I did & still do on occasion, to keep him from turning in, was to to get him started again immediately, no standing unless he did not turn in.
At first that meant physically moving him, now I just need to tell him “get back out” & he steps back onto the arc of the circle.
You don’t tell us how much time you have spent longeing other horses. Nor do you indicate that you have any training in longe line and whip coordination. Both are critical factors in teaching a horse to longe.
It sometimes helps too, if you ave a friend to initially lead him in a large circle around you.
While ther are good books out there Alois Podhajsky’s “Complete Training of Horse and Rider” being excellent. A good instructor is far better.
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In the end, it doesn’t matter what the horse was taught to do. That’s what gets a lot of people into trouble - they spend so much time trying to get the horse to not do This Thing, when all the focus should be on teaching them to do That Thing. This is what keeps a lot of people from making progress - they use the alleged/suspected/made up past as an excuse for why something is hard, or not working.
Some horses just learned that looking to people is comforting. I never taught my homebred to turn and face me, but if I walk into the pasture, he turns to face me because he’s curious and wants to be all in my business :lol: Teaching him to lunge, his first reaction on stopping was “let me go check in to see if that was good”.
Go back to walking in hand, and get REALLY good at stopping on a straight line. Use the whip in front of you, which means to his inside eye. Work hard on teaching him to move his shoulders away from you - first at arm’s reach, then from farther and farther away. Teach him that “whoa” means “whoa right here right now don’t move your feet”, and THAT automatically means “don’t turn in don’t turn out”
