I am sure there is already a thread on this, but I was unsuccessful in finding it.
I was wondering what everyone looks for in a green horse. Willingness, quality of movement and impulsion stand out to me.
Are there any comments on how to tell a horse’s potential? I’ve heard that any sound horse can do 3rd level - what do you look for in a horse for FEI?
I think it would depend on what level of rider you, what type of horse that you like riding and if you just to compete at FEI level or you want to win. Because there’s lots of horses who can compete at FEI level without ever being a championship contender. Two ShirexTbs have been successful at FEI dressage in the UK. http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2012/04/25/walter-and-giddy-shire-crossbreds-career-dressage
Here we have a Belgian/Hackney X doing Grand Prix and a Connemara that has done at least I2, and may have progressed higher by now. They don’t necessarily win, but they are competitive ;), this is at the Gold level.
For me, because I am older and scareder than I used to be, willingness/temperament would be the #1 priority. My PSG horse was not a wow mover, although he was athletic and capable, but his work ethic took him a long way. Right now I am choosing between 2 of my green horses as his successor, and I’m leaning towards the one with the more unflappable temperament even though he’s bigger than I like…But I know I can take him to strange places and he’ll handle it without fuss and bother.
I don’t believe any sound horse can do 3rd level, I used to ride a very sound STB mare and she did not have adequate jump in her canter to do flying changes.
Just wanted to add that even with good temperament, pick a horse whose conformation will not make the job harder. Willingness can overcome a multitude of physical defects, but I know going from a STB to a WB, the WB found the job much easier than the STB.
I have a Standardbred too and freely confess that dressage is not my choice of career for him. He’ll do some but more for my benefit.
“Potential” is just such a dicey word for me. Sometimes the impeccably bred Warmblood with the most ideal conformation doesn’t make it past 2nd level and sometimes the “nonpurposebred horse” with terrible conformation but with tons of heart and try makes it to GP. I think many times the talent of the person riding and training the horse is often a deciding factor as to how far up the ladder the horse progresses. Certainly you can stack the odds in your favor by finding a horse with good conformation, 3 good gaits, and a solid work ethic…but as anyone who has been around horses knows, it’s not a guarantee.
When I was shopping for a young WB prospect (focusing on 2 yo’s, so couldn’t ride them), I really focused on:
Temperament - will I actually be able to ride this horse? I researched stallions with reputations for throwing amateur-friendly kids.
Gaits - will I actually be able to ride this horse? I wanted something with gaits that were elastic, but not extravagant. I turned down a few horses that didn’t have the shoulder freedom, and a Weltmeyer daughter that I thought had too much trot (plus I was worried about the spiciness that might come with Weltmeyer)
Conformationally, I looked for a nice, longer hip with a stifle set down below the body (if the stifle is up hugged into the body, it will be harder to bend that joint to sit in collection). I also looked for good bone - no little feet and spindly skeletons for me. Decent neck with a clean enough throatlatch to maintain an upper-level frame without constricting too much. Strong loin connection and nice shoulder angle. But most of all, overall balance.
Movement - aside from gaits, what attracted me to the mare I ultimately purchased, was her ability to flow in and out of gaits, and natural tendency to step under and stop herself with her hind. I was impressed that in a free-lunging video, she didn’t invert and pronk around, but rather kept her hind legs engaged.
She has turned out to be a sensitive soul, and starting her hasn’t been the easiest, but in terms of ability, I am pretty happy with the horse I chose, and how she is maturing, as a 4 year old. I would still take her over one of the more modern-type, extravagant-gaited horses any day. If we can get her going in the right direction, I think she’ll make child’s play of lateral work, and hit the sweet spot of being able to both extend and collect, rather than being strong on one and weak on the other.
^ what breeding did you end up going with?
I also looked at 2 year olds…the canter was perhaps the biggest deciding factor after temperament. For that age, all I had to go on was free movement, so I looked for a good walk, an excellent canter that showed the horse doing flying changes on its own. I look for the trot to be pure, but not extravagant. Conformation wise, I prefer a short coupled horse with a strong hind end and good articulation of the joints.
As for temperament, I look for something that is fairly confident, inquisitive, and eager to please…the kind of horse that keeps guessing until it gets the right answer. So willingness is a big factor. You can play around with that a little when the horse is not yet under saddle with some ground work exercises.
With my horse, I was lucky enough to meet and play around with 2 siblings by the same sire and 1 sibling out of the same dam. And I handled and messed around with the dam as well.
I looked at breeding as well, my horse comes from a well established mare line, with consistent results in sport as well as at the inspections. Sire’s side was the same, lots of top performance results. It’s not totally parallel because I bought a totally jumper bred horse, but he continues to show potential to move on up the levels.
So far, I’ve managed to pull off the ideal combination of level headed and super sensitive to my aids. That’s part luck, part training, and part knowing the breeder’s program and the temperaments of her other horses.
Absolutely!
And often a rider will prefer a specific breed’s temperament. Going with the most prone toward physical ability within that heed you can find helps. I absolutely love quarter horses, for example, and would love a reining bred or the type of all arounder with whom I grew up to a modern western pleasure type.
And luck is a major fsctor. Horses are so creative in ways to injure themselves! Great instruction and an ability to listen to it are also important.
This has some useful tips: https://www.usdf.org/EduDocs/The-Horse/Sporthorse_Crash_Course.pdf
But remember it’s more than just conformation and extravagant natural gaits – temperament, heart, and the environment the horse is in has a LOT to do with what happens. And most of that can’t be seen just looking at a horse.
This is also worth reading – http://dressagenaturally.net/reading-room/essays/87-the-hero-6-in-praise-of-the-ordinary-horse
I see so many people “over horse” themselves thinking that’s all they need – and it turns out they can’t ride it. So sometimes the best horse is the average mover that will be a teammate vs. that extravagant mover that can barely be ridden.
I agree with everything stated and would like to add one caveat. For those talented partners who pony up and put faith and trust in their rider, it’s critical that you listen to that partner and design and adapt the training to meet their specific needs. I see far too many who do not spend the time on proper conditioning and interval training that each horse deserves. When those horses go lame or develop a NQR moment the blame often goes to the [lack of inherent] talent or ability of the horse. Trainers/instructors start to sing the mantra of getting a purpose-bred or [more] talented horse when it’s really either the rider’s limitations working against the balance of the horse or the horse isn’t conditioned correctly. It’s a really common issue here in the desert and the weather and management styles have a significant influence on this; but I also see too many trainers fail to find ways to compensate CORRECTLY for the lack of exercise these horses get… Back in the day when road and tracks were still a part of eventing and racing was better known to more folks, I think horses were conditioned better and more effectively across disciplines. It’s what helps prevent injuries, keeps horses fit, provides them with the mental escapes needed and improves the overall game. I believe it’s really what helped my less than talented herd get to FEI.
By Rascalino out of a Londonderry mare.
I recently sat on the sidelines watching a friend shop for her next FEI prospect. She had personal preferences on height, breeding, etc. but this is what she was looking for in a 3-4 year old:
Gaits
Very clear rhythmic 4 beat walk with a tendency to swing through the back.
The walk could be shortened without a loss of rhythm
Does the trot come from the elbow or does the horse truly open the whole shoulder and fully reach evenly up front
Does the rear naturally come both under and up. When half halted does the hindend “think” sit or does it fall out behind
Watch the outside hind in the canter. Does it clearly come off the ground, up, forward, and then back down or is it passively being pulled alone (**amazing how many seemingly droolworthy canters have zero push from the outside hind)
Is the reach from the hindend coming from the leg swinging forward at the stifle or is the hip really driving the leg under with clear articulation of the hocks.
Balance
I think I remembered her big areas but there’s probably a point or two I am missing. She has a great eye but the half a dozen prospects she has purchased since I’ve known her have met this criteria. All are successfully FEI or moving that direction barring unforeseeable circumstances.
That’s funny. It sounded like a filly I just bought by Rotspon. And sure enough same line. Cool!
very helpful, thank you
#2 is rhythm in all 3 gaits
Mine was well-suited for dressage in walk and trot, and while we improved her canter considerably, it was always flat. Got her up to Medium 1 (which would be between 2nd and 3rd) at the provincial level, we were always competitive. One judge told me she had “a quality of trot that was suitable for national shows, but the canter…” Great work ethic too, which takes a horse far.
The most talented horse I have, and she really is something special ability-wise, is a prima donna, and heaven forbid you have as much as a wrinkle in the saddle pad, she is complaining of abuse.
She sounds awesome. Lots of Standardbreds are great jumpers. Even many of the Standardbred haters in Australia will concede that. Have you considered eventing?
My current Standardbred is my third but the first one who tranters in his paddock. Not always, just sometimes. He does have a back issue and is currently a pet while I sort out his issues. The idea of doing dressage with him is more the voice of optimism speaking than any actual plans.
LOL! No, this horse was euthanized a few years ago at the age of 29. Plus, even when I was young and brave cross-country scared the bejeebers out of me. Before we went dressage only with her we did do some hunter, but her talent really lay in dressage.
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