Thanks. Again I think I may be using the wrong terms. Not sure if maybe on the bit is a better term. I’m still learning. I’m trying to read up on terms etc.
Ask your trainer these questions. The trainer exists to teach the owner as well as the horse. Watch her ride and ask her to do a commentary on what she is asking for and feeling.
I think a trainer would be happy to know the owner was truly interested, not indifferent or argumentative. Listen but don’t start splitting hairs over definitions. Ask if you can stay and watch her school advanced horses or give a lesson. If you can shadow a whole teaching or training day. Just watch and let your eye adapt to the new way of riding. I did this with my dressage coach when we met and learned so much, and she became a mentor and friend.
Keep your questions specific, and go with the terminology your coach uses. Don’t keep saying " but I saw on the internet where …" Learn directly from your coach.
I do. But like I posted before I’m a visual learner so I’m trying to see the difference. I’m not trying to offend people I’m trying to learn
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Yes, that’s one illustration of the dressage training pyramid (there are others out there that have a few more clarifying details on what each level means - you might find this helpful to gain a more comprehensive understanding). The questions you’re asking are big questions that don’t actually have a clear-cut answer, which I think is why you’re running into some answers that you might not be entirely satisfied with. “Well, it depends” is how I’ve found myself responding to many of your questions because they’re so horse/rider-individual (when was the horse started, who is the horse started by, were they started well or are they having to un-learn habits, etc).
Do you have any dressage books that you’ve read? There are some out there that might help with some of the foundational knowledge you’re touching on here. Some of them have some fantastic illustrations and photographs that might help you with your eye, as well. You can then use what you’ve read to ask specific questions of your trainer from to help clarify your understanding. I’ve found this has helped me tremendously in my learning.
(Lendon Gray has a great one that’s super accessible, “Lessons with Lendon” - and then there’s my favorites: the Principles of Riding from the German National Equestrian Foundation, which isn’t entirely discipline specific but it’s very much a foundation for proper riding, and then the Advanced Techniques of Dressage also by the German Equestrian Foundation which is discipline specific but goes right up to the more complicated movements so may not be entirely relevant to you at this point, which is why I would probably start with the principles of riding.)
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Thanks. I think I’m just not explaining myself right in what I’m looking for. I wish I could find photos explaining the difference between everything to see if I’m capturing my mare at her best and if I’m seeing the correct things.
Pictures are not the best way to understand what you need to look for. You need to feel it.
Since you said you were at Training level, you need to aim at perfecting the working gaits + free & medium walk.
Read about it - Check the USEF or FEI rule book.
Find videos about it.
And yes, pictures if you find it helps you.
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Go to Deb Bennetts book and Hooves Blog by Mercedes. All will be explained with lots of photos.
Describing collection is pretty straight forward. Feeling and doing are a different thing. I find true collection is like falling in love…you feel it when it happens. I agree with the poster who said to concentrate on CONNECTION (throughness) and collection will come.
https://dressagetoday.com/instruction/measuring_dressage_collection_061810
Guyot- I am sorry for offending your sensibilities.
But when someone writes"watch a horse do collected things When your trainer is schooling these movements like a leg yield",
I read that as referring to LY as a collected movement, which it is not.
I added (regurgitated) the quote from the USDF to forestall further discussion of LY as a collected gait.
Again, my apologies for offending your sensibilities.
If you posted some not so good pics it would help to learn what is wrong with them.
You should see her muscles around her shoulders, wither area developing. The muscle under side of her neck should be soft at not developed and her throat latch should get thinner.
I am also new to dressage and working on all of these levels. I am doing all of the training on my horse so it is a big learning curve. I was surprised to see straightness so far up the scale because when I am not straight I cannot get relaxation or connection. So I am not thinking this is not one level and go to the next. They all intertwine to a degree from my novice lips.
Watch videos of UL dressage horses. It’s a lot more than just a “dip” in the back - some horses have conformation that, even when collected, a dip still appears in their back because they have a long topline or long loin connection.
One of the easier ways to identify collection is to watch their hind legs: they should be engaged, tracking up, and pushing from behind - you’ll see the frame shorten, and the horse carries himself more uphill - the hind end will lower and the front end will raise as the hind legs articulate and step under the horse further.
When you are riding it is very, very easy to feel true collection: the gaits are almost always smoother to ride and you can feel swinging in the horse’s back.
Don’t, as a general rule, assume a horse that has an arched neck and/or appearing on the bit is collected. Too many people look at the head/neck first and that is not where true collection comes from.
These days I don’t see many UL horses with “open throatlatches”, but a good indicator is that their body is elastic but coiled, and a horse that is truly collected has a natural arch to his spine & neck, compression in the length of his frame, a front end elevated over hind, and a discernible change in articulation of hind/front limbs when going from working(medium) to collected work. When all the pieces of the training pyramid are mastered, collection falls into place. Or it should - but lots of riders prefer to ride front to back and pull the jaw/neck in, in a false frame.
A four year old is likely too young and likely has not had enough riding time to build the muscles required for collection.
I second the recommendation to look into the training pyramid. I believe from your photos your lovely morgan is showing evidence of accepting the bit.
