Perhaps I missed this but has the horse owner actually called and talked with the farrier to get his side of the story?
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Fair point. No, I don’t think so. HO is uncomfortable with confrontation, and doesn’t know what to say/do. I think she was waiting a bit to see the horse’s outcome/final bill, and go from there. I feel too removed to do that for her. Her dad wanted her to call and ask if he had insurance, but she didn’t want him to think she was going to launch a big stink. I imagine it could be a “he said she said” thing with him claiming he did say to call a vet, but knowing all parties involved, it does seem likely that it happened as described.
I’m surprised she hasn’t called the farrier yet. Simple way to start the conversation is to ask him what happened and go from there.
Here’s an example of the type of insurance a farrier might carry.
https://www.markelinsurance.com/farrier
Of course, he hasn’t called to check on the horse, either. Once I had a horse pull shoe and step on a clip within half an hour of being shod and my farrier called me twice to find out how the mare was doing.
My gelding abscessed a few weeks ago (right after I broke my ankle) and my current farrier came out to check it and then texted me to see if I needed her to come back since I’m not in any shape to check any feet, let alone a horse that’s hurting.
Can’t imagine hiring someone who didn’t circle back and show concern.
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I know my barn insurance has a section where you check off if you provide farrier services, and if so, to what amount. As he owns a barn, I would think he would be insured in that way? I don’t know.
As I know HO, I can understand what it is that is making it hard for her to call him, and also why she texted me for help even though we haven’t spoken in years.
I guess I can understand the 30 hour wait thing given her work situation, but there is no world in which I wouldn’t have at LEAST asked for photos of the wound no matter how big or small, especially if I wasn’t there to see it right away. That’s totally on HO. In regards to the farrier being liable for the vet costs, that wound was prob made worse in the 30 hours it took before anyone decided to actually take a good hard look. That is not the farriers fault for that at all. I also wouldn’t trust someones opinion on something like this who isn’t familiar with horses, mother or not. If the PO noticed it was “bleeding a lot” they should have said something too.
I definitely agree this falls into the shit happens category and the farrier was just trying to do his job the best he could with incompetent people responsible for the horse at the time.
I think the farrier is the least at fault here out of all the parties involved.
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According to American Farriers, 52% of full-time farriers and 56% of part-time farriers do NOT carry liability insurance. I have never asked my farriers if they have insurance.
I would be pretty upset too if this happened to my horse. But - this is a case where somebody that works out of town needs to be in a more professional type of boarding situation. I get it - I used to be in public accounting and had to be gone all week on an audit and had little time overseeing horse care. But if you are in that work situation boarding in a semi-self care barn where you have to get your non-horsey Mom to hold for the farrier you are assuming a certain amount of risk. And unfortunately your friend just hit the downside of that risk.
I also agree that the farrier should have just left the horse and refused to shoe him. But maybe he had driven out that way and committed his time and didn’t want to eat the income because the horse didn’t behave. He probably thought that given some discipline that Mom couldn’t do the horse would straighten up and he could get the job done. He didn’t realize the horse would run into his stand. And I agree he should not have bandaged the leg. It would be nice if he had sent a picture of the wound but that probably would not show the extent of the damage. It is not his fault that Mom was not an experienced horse person. It is not her fault either.
As much as this whole thing sucks it is mostly on the horse owner. We all take risks because of our financial and work situations and sometimes we are lucky and sometimes it catches up with us. The horse owner could have called a vet to look at the wound after her Mom called her. She decided not to. That unfortunately was a bad decision which is going to be very costly. I really feel for her and I know she is upset. But I do not think the barn owner, farrier or Mom are ultimately responsible unless her boarding situation is supposed to be full service including wound care.
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We don’t really know what happened though. It’s possible the horse was just being lazy and leaning, and the farrier didn’t do anything egregious. Untying the horse and circling it around, for example, would not be something outrageous to reset the stance, and not a situation worth refusing to shoe the horse.
It was very likely just an accident. I agree with you - a quick discipline and the stand just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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^agree 110% with this. I would also caution your friend against pursuing her farrier for payment of the vet bill. Farriers talk amongst themselves and I think she would be hard pressed to find another farrier in the area willing to trim/shoe her horse in the future. In addition, stories like that spread around and she may be hard pressed to find other service providers (boarding, etc.) in the future if people infer that she is litigious.
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Yes! What they said.
And I am going to add that if her current farrier gets wind of this discussion your friend will likely not need to fire the farrier, as the farrier will likely fire your friend.
I really do not get any of it. But I am floored at the thought that the farrier should at least cover the cost of the emergency call later in the day because some how it is the farrier’s responsibility to make sure the HO has responsible people making those decisions for them and the farrier is supposed to know that both the HO’s mother and barn owner are totally clueless.
I can see it now, all professionals need to properly interview people left in charge of a horse at an appointment so they know if they the only one there that might be responsible enough to know about calling the vet.
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I’ve been thinking about this situation and I wonder…
I’m working out of town. I hire trainer to ride my horse. Horse misbehaves. Trainer gets after horse so she can do the job I hired her to do. Horse freaks out about getting corrected. Horse injures itself during freak out. Trainer uses her best judgment and wraps leg. Turns out trainer’s judgement is wrong. I call vet three days later. Is trainer paying my vet bill? I think not
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In this example, where would you say the line is? Would you be ok if you came out and horse’s leg was degloved? or the bone was exposed? Or the tendon literally hanging out of the leg (no longer attached)? Or the jaw broken?
It makes me sad to read other respondents say that the HO could be blackballed if she pursues the farrier quietly. How sad for our industry. It’s one thing to think the farrier isn’t liable, but to just be afraid/threaten people to nor pursue negligent behaviour is surprising to me. How shitty a culture we have allowed to develop in our sport.
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This issue here is that the HO had representatives there at the time and THEY didn’t make a big deal out of it either. They should have 100% before the farrier should have. HO should have cared more to ask for photos or gotten out there to see for herself sooner. This is not the farriers fault. This seems to me like people trying to place the blame elsewhere and not on themselves for a situation that maybe shouldn’t have happened to start with.
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I would hope if the wound was as serious as that at the time of injury that any of the 3 people handling/supervising my horse would send me a picture of the injury. I wouldn’t expect my farrier to call the vet for me, though. But also, based on the information provided here, that isn’t what happened. An accident (which could happen to any of us) happened and it sucks. The injury was made worse by improper treatment, but that isn’t really the farrier’s fault. PO is supposedly knowledgeable and HO was told of injury but didn’t pursue it further at the time (hindsight is 20/20).
I don’t think this is
I’m not sure how this is a “shitty culture” to have. I’ve done art commissions in the past and have had difficult clients. I refused to work with them again and warned my friends (fellow artists) of them. One client did attempt litigation (long, unrelated story), which got them SUPER blacklisted by me and other artists I knew because we didn’t want to deal with such difficult attitudes. In HO’s case, her pursuing this legally just isn’t a clearcut matter which would not help the opinions of other service providers. According to the information you presented here, there are multiple people who were negligent in the horse’s care versus the farrier just injured the horse. Had the farrier been alone when this happened, chosen to bandage the leg and turn out anyway, and/or not told anybody about it, I’d have found the case a lot clearer.
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The only “sh*tty culture” I see is expecting the farrier to be responsible in the case posted above.
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I disagree.
Farrier is the professional hired by the HO, who had to recognize these ladies had zero clue.
So if it was a kid who “works” at the barn holding the horse, would the farrier still have no responsibility?
Farrier also, recognizing he had more knowledge, took the initiative to dress the wound, but not to alert the HO…again well aware, obviously since he did the bandaging and turning out rather than leave it to the ladies present, that he was the most knowledgeable person present.
In fact the farrier, the clearly most knowledgeable present, doing the bandaging and then putting the horse back out and not calling HO would actually suggest to the less experienced ladies that it was not a big deal.
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No I’m not ok. But there’s a difference between me being ok and me expecting someone else to pay my vet bill. Much less legal liability.
I can fire the trainer. I can post on the internet that I feel trainer’s judgement on injuries is worse than worthless. And I would most definitely do those things.
Now if I boarded my horse and the above happened. I might have a case against the BO. The BO had care, custody and control of my horse. The BO maybe found negligent for not informing me of my horse’s injury. Maybe.
I’ve seen this play out first hand. Nobody is gonna pay your horse’s vet bill bc it was a horse and injured itself.
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If the mom and the PO were that incompetent, HO should have rescheduled a time that she herself could be there.
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As should the farrier if he arrived to find no competent help which/if he requires or needs it.
If I trust my farrier to do this solo, which several of my farriers have, and I send my non-horsey mom simply to give him the check to pay for the trim, he should not ever defer to her, especially if he recognizes that she’s not capable.
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