How & would you try to recoup vet costs - injured horse

[FjordBCRF]

It sounded like the PO was the more competent one the way I read but clearly not competent enough to recognize the wound was that severe. The HO was informed and chose not to act for 30 hours. I don’t know what else to say other than this is personally something I wouldn’t do with my own horse. If I couldn’t be there or get someone who knows horses to be there if i couldn’t be, I would reschedule.

As others have said, this falls into the shit happens category and to blame the farrier here isn’t going to get any vet bills paid or make the horse better and may cause more issues for HO down the road.

[Angela_Freda]

Nope, not suggesting farrier should pay.

But I would no longer use him either, because as a farrier, farm owner and trainer, he clearly cut and ran proving himself untrustworthy.

[lenapesadie]

@Angela_Freda

Farrier is the professional hired by the HO, who had to recognize these ladies had zero clue.

Was he? Or was he there doing all horses on the property?

The fact that the BO has zero clue isn’t the Farrier’s problem.

More likely he assumed the BO and HO’s mom aren’t complete weirdos and that they texted HO pictures of injury.

Or the Farrier’s story goes “so this POS horse tried to pull back on the cross ties when I insisted it hold its own weight up. I had to untie it myself bc the people there are useless. POS horse starts dancing around like a turd so I snatch it’s face a bit and it acts like I’m killing it and manages to fall on the GD hoof stand. I whack of the worst of its toes off and chuck it back in the field bc the people there are useless. Then the useless ones start whining that the POS is bleeding. They tell me they don’t know what to do and that the HO doesn’t have any money and ask me what to do. The horse is walking ok so I slap a bandage on it to keep poop and flies off and tell them it’s gonna have to be checked. Then these nincompoops leave the wrap on for 3 effing days! Then they decide it’s an emergent vet call and get the vet out after hours. Vet gives them so drugs and tells them to clean and wrap the wound just like I did. Now the HO is trying to sue me!” Farrier’s farrier friend he tells story to promptly takes HO info so he can make sure he never works for her and tells all his farrier buddies too.

The End

[Gardenhorse]

In my opinion, everyone involved in this situation made bad decisions. The farrier obviously should not have minimized the seriousness of the wound or treated it himself and should have informed the horse owner of the injury. The property owner, who presumably has some responsibility for care of the horse since it is boarded on her property, who is a horse person herself, and who noted the injury was “bleeding a lot” should have been able to recognize this was a wound that needed veterinary care and should have informed the horse owner. The horse owner should have asked more questions when told about the injury, especially knowing that the person telling her about it is not a horse person. Really the person I put the least blame on is the mom - she has no knowledge of horses and at least told the horse owner about the injury even if she didn’t understand how serious it was.

But ultimately it is the horse owner’s responsibility to make sure the people caring for her horse in her absence are competent and trustworthy. Unfortunately in this situation it seems that the property owner isn’t competent and the farrier isn’t trustworthy. It’s definitely a hard way to learn that lesson.

[Angela_Freda]

If he talked about me and my horse that way, good riddance.

[lenapesadie]

I mean the PO has her own horse, horse property and casual boarding business. It’s not like she’s a lesson kid in her first week of summer camp.

[lenapesadie]

I’d fire him too. That doesn’t mean he’s responsible for my vet bill. And that’s what happens when you sue horse folks over horse accidents; they talk smack.

[Angela_Freda]

@lenapesadie

the PO has her own horse, horse property and casual boarding business.

That’s not the impression I got.

I know lots of property owning, horse owning, … even those who claim to be professionals, who suck.

If I happen to hire someone in a professional capacity who other professionals I hire know sucks, I expect them to tell me

[FjordBCRF]

Totally agree. I was using incompetent more facetiously in her case.

[lenapesadie]

I think it’s in the OP.

I certainly fire folks that suck and avoid them if at all possible.

[Angela_Freda]

What is?

[Gardenhorse]

@Angela_Freda

@lenapesadie

the PO has her own horse, horse property and casual boarding business.

That’s not the impression I got.

The fact that the property owner owns the property and owns an elderly horse is in the OP. I assume the “casual boarding business” is referring to the fact that the horse owner’s horse is boarded on her property. Of course we don’t know if property owner is actually charging board.

[Angela_Freda]

@CHT

neighbour who is an elderly lady with an elderly horse who needed a friend.

. doesn’t necessarily suggest “boarding business” or that the PO is providing any kind of care at all.
Sounds more like OP has her horse there as companion to POs horse, ie as a favor to PO, rather than other way around.
shrug

[lenapesadie]

Right she has a horse, a horse property and is casually boarding her neighbor’s daughter’s horses

[Equisis]

I don’t think the farrier is financially responsible here. Since none of us were there, we can’t say what constituted “being naughty”, what the “correction” was, and how the wound looked when it first happened. The farrier was there to provide a service, not to advise on the care of the horse or educate the BO or mother. Being a farrier also doesn’t mean he is a good horseman or has any sort of veterinary knowledge, and while it appears he tried to assist (either to cover his butt or to be genuinely helpful, we cannot know), the fact remains that no one should be relying on their farrier to give qualified veterinary advice. IMO, it was the BO’s responsibility to take notice of the severity and request that the owner involve a veterinarian (assuming that the BO is responsible for daily care?), and the HO’s responsibility to seek out details from a qualified source once she was aware that any injury had occurred. My parents are not horsey, and while I love them, I would NEVER take their word about anything regarding a health issue on one of my horses.

FWIW, as an aside- I am a former vet tech and have seen some incredibly gnarly wounds. Sometimes these things do appear to get bigger after a day or two- granulation, swelling, and gravity can turn what initially looks like a cut into a gaping hole. Without photos of the initial injury, I would consider that perhaps none of the three people present thought it needed vet care because the severity simply wasn’t evident to an untrained eye (blood can also obscure the wound, making it difficult to judge).

If I were your friend, I would take these steps:

• Move the horse somewhere with competent, full-service care. If she travels for work and cannot care for the horse herself, the horse needs to be boarded under full care, or illness/injury will go unnoticed and this situation will repeat.
• Call the farrier. Inform him of what has developed, listen to his side, and move forward from there.
• Create a plan for the future so that visiting service providers do not have to handle the horse on their own. The buck stops with the owner in regards to safety- both safety of the horse, and the safety of those who may be working on him. Learn from this instance and be sure that there is always someone present who is there as a competent representative for the owner, and trusted to make decisions on their behalf.

[endlessclimb]

Even without the correction -

How many times have we seen a young or edgy horse come undone with a foot on a hoofstand? Or knock over the cart of tools because he pulled his leg back and then flipped out? Implying the farrier should have moved the hoofstand is laughable at best.

Farrier is not responsible. Train your horse to be quiet, or be prepared to sedate.

[S1969]

@endlessclimb

Farrier is not responsible. Train your horse to be quiet, or be prepared to sedate.

Or just have someone knowledgeable to hold them. My horses have knocked over a hoof stand before. It’s not usually a big deal. But it’s extra work for the farrier if the horse is tied and they have to do all the fixing…they have to stop what they are doing to move the horse, move the stand, etc. Obviously lots of farriers work alone and do this all the time without issue; but if there is a competent handler there, the handler fixes the horse and/or corrects it before it gets difficult.

I want to know what the PO was doing. Just watching? Maybe she should have held the horse instead.

[endlessclimb]

Agreed. First time hot shoeing I’m always there. If the horse is ho-hum about it, then I don’t worry about it from then on out. If not, then I make sure that I am there to hold. If I’m running a bit late I tell him to do the Old Man horse first, as he is basically nominated as a Patron Saint lol.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Angela_Freda

If he talked about me and my horse that way, good riddance.

I mean, none of us were there, but that’s essentially how he did act, treating the horse as if he was angry at the horse for being a POS. Part of being a good horse professional is not to act out of anger, and his behavior after the horse acted up suggests a sense of “good riddance, get me the hell out of this barn.” I’m assuming the bleeding was bad enough he felt he couldn’t just leave it gush. Turning the horse out also may have been done to give him a “cover up” if it was bad, because, once the horse has been turned out, it’s hard to know exactly how much was from the stand and how much was from turnout.

Part of being a good horse professional is also knowing when your expertise is at its limit, and to say, “call the vet,” or, “call the owner, text a photo, see what she wants to do,” and leave the horse on crossties or in a stall. It sounds like he may have used his persona as a professional and frankly, as a man, to intimidate the two women, who were unsure of their competence, to suggest he knew what he was doing (even though he didn’t, regarding wound treatment). The owner’s mother seems not to have any knowledge, and even if the property owner knows something…well, alas, I’ve known many very frail, elderly women who do own their own horses, but I wouldn’t trust them to supervise a horse during a farrier appointment.

But again, horse cases, legally speaking, are difficult enough to prove, and so many balls regarding responsibility were dropped I don’t think it’s possible to recoup costs. Again, I obviously am just guessing from the OP’s original post, but to me the farrier’s actions suggest bending over backward to minimize his liability in all of this, rather than doing what’s best for the horse.

[TheJenners]

@Equisis

Being a farrier also doesn’t mean he is a good horseman

Just want to put this out by its own little self because ye gods it’s true.

@Equisis

If I were your friend, I would take these steps:

• Move the horse somewhere with competent, full-service care. If she travels for work and cannot care for the horse herself, the horse needs to be boarded under full care, or illness/injury will go unnoticed and this situation will repeat.
• Call the farrier. Inform him of what has developed, listen to his side, and move forward from there.
• Create a plan for the future so that visiting service providers do not have to handle the horse on their own. The buck stops with the owner in regards to safety- both safety of the horse, and the safety of those who may be working on him. Learn from this instance and be sure that there is always someone present who is there as a competent representative for the owner, and trusted to make decisions on their behalf.

This is exactly my opinion to the OP. Answer the “how & would,” I would say “no, I wouldn’t, major suck and I’d re-evaluate the plan going forward for horse because clearly this doesn’t work.” I haven’t not worked FT+ since college and had horses for all but three months of that, and I’m way past college. I either boarded at a full-care place that had the amenities to keep suicidal creatures quasi-safe while I worked or was away, or selfcare boarded and saw them daily (daily), or owned my own place (x2) and saw them several times a day. Didn’t keep them from hurting themselves, but I was available for their care provider appointments or arranged someone who could think for themselves and not be bamboozled by a care provider.