Hunt Teams class @ Devon Horse show

[Jaegermonster]

I was just reading the COTH article about the results of the hunt teams class and the marriage proposal to one of the riders on the winning team (very lovely and congrats on your win and the proposal btw, the horses looked lovely in the photo).

However, I couldn’t help but make note of the statement that the young lady had never been in a hunt field in her life and had no hunt affiliation, and apparently never plans to hunt.

Does anyone else feel that in order to compete in a hunt teams class, the riders should be hunt members and the horses field hunters? If they aren’t, then it isn’t very well hunt teams now is it? It’s just 3 nice horses and pretty riders jumping around a course. All very lovely just the same, but not hunt teams.

[2ndyrgal]

I agree, but…

perhaps they could have come up with a different name for the class, however, it does seem that a true “hunt team” of three is getting harder and harder to come up with. Nice nod to the tradition, and since some of the spectators and competitors have likely never seen one, good on them for having one, and good on the entries.

[Beverley]

Well, yes, but on the other hand, the whole ‘hunter’ division originated with foxhunting, and how many show hunters have ever been outside the ring let alone hunting?

Actually, I am okay with a 'hunt team’s class that is part of a regular show and not restricted to the foxhunters classes which seem to be dying anyway. Makes for a nice change of pace. Now if we can just get them doing outside courses again…

[florida_foxhunter]

There are some shows that still hold real “hunt teams”…Warrenton, Harrisburg, Washington (used to until recently I think??) , and now Aiken…to name a few I know of in the East.

I don’t mind the concept of show hunters jumping in teams, and agree it’s a plus trying to get show hunters to return to their roots a little more. Devon has lots of big hunts near them, and could include real hunt teams if they had time in their program. I realize it’s a huge, busy show, but it’d be great.

I hate to hear the term " hunt teams " being used to be anything other than real foxhunters…let’s keep the tradition alive!!!

[SLW]

I agree with the OP but if the gal helped create an illusion of being a fox hunter maybe some person watching will actually act on the impulse and get involved in hunting.

[vxf111]

There were many entries at Devon from hunts in the area. I think both Radnor and Cheshire had a team.

[lcw579]

There were more than a few teams that had true foxhunters involved. Riders and/or horses.

Lots of locals in there. And yes, Radnor and Cheshire were both represented.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=lcw579;5671640]
There were more than a few teams that had true foxhunters involved. Riders and/or horses.

Lots of locals in there. And yes, Radnor and Cheshire were both represented.[/QUOTE]

That is wonderful to hear, I do know that many foxhunters also do show their horses as well. But unless it is in the class specs that riders are required to be or have been an active member of a recognized hunt, such as at some of the other shows mentioned, then it is not truly a “hunt teams” class. It is merely teams.
Not saying the horses and riders weren’t lovely etc etc etc, but I think everyone gets my point.

[vxf111]

I don’t think the prizelist said anything about all entrants being members of active hunts? There’s also an “open foxhunter” class on Sunday. Which is open to winners of local hunter classes. It also has nothing to do with actual foxhunting except it’s an excuse to use some of the natural derby jumps set up in the ring anyway. Same thing with pony hunt teams, that’s just the kids from the divisions. It has nothing whatsoever to do with foxhunting. I see “hunt teams” and many shows and it in no way relates or is meant to relate to foxhunting. I don’t think Devon intends these classes to be exclusively for foxhunters or for audiences to think they’re seeing foxhunters.

[Jaegermonster]

I haven’t seen their prizelist,and I don’t think I said that. Please reread for comprehension.
What I said was if it doesn’t have some requirement that participants in the class are active or past members of a recognized hunt and/or the horses have not hunted, then they are not “hunt teams”. They are just three pretty horses jumping around in a circle. Lovely all the same, but not hunt teams.
And as far as Open Foxhunter or whatever they call it, I also throw the bs flag. Call it Open Hunter or whatever, but call it what it is, and it most likely aint a foxhunter.

[vxf111]

No need to be rude! All I am saying is that the word “hunt” in the title of all these classes does not denote “foxhunting” any more than “working hunter” or “young hunter under saddle” denotes foxhunting. They are all just hunter classes.

[Equibrit]

I believe that it is Hunter Trials that require the competitors to be active hunt members.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;5672580]

And as far as Open Foxhunter or whatever they call it, I also throw the bs flag. Call it Open Hunter or whatever, but call it what it is, and it most likely aint a foxhunter.[/QUOTE]

You can look at the prizelist here…

http://www.thedevonhorseshow.org/docs/DHS_2011_Prize_List.pdf

There are a variety of classes that have the word “hunt” and even “foxhunter” in the title and they’re not restricted to members of active hunts.

<<CLASS 73
HUNT TEAMS–PONIES
Open to ponies who have competed in one of the regular pony hunter sections. Teams of three ponies, shown over a course in the ring, one to follow the other at a safe hunting distance. Combined ownership permitted. Judged on performance, suitability, manners, uniformity and appearance as a team. Fences: 2’3" for ponies not exceeding 12.2; 2’6" for ponies not exceeding 13.2 and 3’ for ponies over 13.2. Pony and/or rider may only compete on one team. Post entries accepted until 3:00 p.m. Saturday. Entry Fee $120 per team paid at time of entry>>

<<CLASS 74
HUNT TEAMS–HORSES
Teams of three, shown over a course in the ring one to follow the other at a safe hunting distance. Combined ownership permitted. Judged on performance, suitability, manners, uniformity and appearance as a team. Jumps approximately 3’6". Horses and/or rider may only compete on one team. Post entries accepted until 5:00 p.m. Saturday. Ponies not entered elsewhere in this show may compete if ridden by an adult. Entry Fee $120 per team paid at time of entry>>

<<CLASS 187
$200 WORKING HUNTER—FOX HUNTING FIELD PERFORMANCE
Shown in the ring, no jumps over 3’6", arranged to represent obstacles ordinarily encountered in fox hunting. Judged on what judges consider the most preferable ride in the fox hunting field. No Points. Open to the top 4 placed competitors in each section in classes 182, 183 and 184. Declarations due by 4:00 p.m. Saturday.
Entry Fee $75>>

Classes 182-184 are the local hunter classes.

Whether you think it’s appropriate or not, none of these classes are intended to be restricted to hunt members. The hunt teams (horses) happened to have a bunch of actual foxhunters entered. The pony hunt teams never do because it’s kids who did the smalls/mediums/larges. Fox Hunting Field Performance is just the folks who win the locals, it’s not in any way directed to foxhunters.

[Jaegermonster]

Not being rude a’tall. Just clarifying.
I’ve seen “Open Hunter” on lots of show programs, but never “Open Foxhunter”.
And since you mention it, they really should think up something else besides "hunter’ overall since most show horses today are about as far removed from anything that should ever be in a hunt field as you can get. Notice I said most not all before anyone gets up in arms about it.

[Equibrit]

It is a bit weird that all those cissified, stride counting horses with the preying mantis riders, whose butts stick out, are called anything to do with hunting.

[vxf111]

I didn’t think foxhunters particularly cared what hunter/jumper people called their classes?

I also think the name “Fox Hunting Field Performance” is a bit silly but it really doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s just one more chance to show for the locals who do well on Saturday. It’s an exhibition class and I don’t think anyone cares all that much. Hardly anyone is even around on Sunday anyway.

[Jaegermonster]

I never said it “bothered” me, was just merely making an observation.
My only point is that it appears as though things are misrepresented. Field hunters and show hunters are on such divergent paths and so fundamentally different it is mind boggling. Fox hunting and all it entails is so much more demanding on a horse both mentally and physically it’s almost insulting to call a class for horses who never leave a ring “hunt teams”.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;5672631]
It is a bit weird that all those cissified, stride counting horses with the preying mantis riders, whose butts stick out, are called anything to do with hunting.[/QUOTE]

Amen Equibrit. Amen.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=vxf111;5672612]
You can look at the prizelist here…

http://www.thedevonhorseshow.org/docs/DHS_2011_Prize_List.pdf

There are a variety of classes that have the word “hunt” and even “foxhunter” in the title and they’re not restricted to members of active hunts.

<<CLASS 73
HUNT TEAMS–PONIES
Open to ponies who have competed in one of the regular pony hunter sections. Teams of three ponies, shown over a course in the ring, one to follow the other at a safe hunting distance. Combined ownership permitted. Judged on performance, suitability, manners, uniformity and appearance as a team. Fences: 2’3" for ponies not exceeding 12.2; 2’6" for ponies not exceeding 13.2 and 3’ for ponies over 13.2. Pony and/or rider may only compete on one team. Post entries accepted until 3:00 p.m. Saturday. Entry Fee $120 per team paid at time of entry>>

<<CLASS 74
HUNT TEAMS–HORSES
Teams of three, shown over a course in the ring one to follow the other at a safe hunting distance. Combined ownership permitted. Judged on performance, suitability, manners, uniformity and appearance as a team. Jumps approximately 3’6". Horses and/or rider may only compete on one team. Post entries accepted until 5:00 p.m. Saturday. Ponies not entered elsewhere in this show may compete if ridden by an adult. Entry Fee $120 per team paid at time of entry>>

<<CLASS 187
$200 WORKING HUNTER—FOX HUNTING FIELD PERFORMANCE
Shown in the ring, no jumps over 3’6", arranged to represent obstacles ordinarily encountered in fox hunting. Judged on what judges consider the most preferable ride in the fox hunting field. No Points. Open to the top 4 placed competitors in each section in classes 182, 183 and 184. Declarations due by 4:00 p.m. Saturday.
Entry Fee $75>>

Classes 182-184 are the local hunter classes.

Whether you think it’s appropriate or not, none of these classes are intended to be restricted to hunt members. The hunt teams (horses) happened to have a bunch of actual foxhunters entered. The pony hunt teams never do because it’s kids who did the smalls/mediums/larges. Fox Hunting Field Performance is just the folks who win the locals, it’s not in any way directed to foxhunters.[/QUOTE]

And thank you so much for that. I never said the entire show should be restricted only to real foxhunters. My point was that if the class is going to be called “hunt teams” then they should be real hunters. Otherwise it’s just “teams”. I grew up showing hunters and jumpers on the A circuit in the late 70’s and 80’s and showed as an adult into the 90’s until I got bored with it and found a foxhunt so I’m very familiar with showing and what it entails.
But as I said, show hunters and foxhunters are so far apart it isn’t even funny.

[vxf111]

It is just a teams class. That’s what both of the teams classes are, only the ponies do it in costumes. I guess it doesn’t bother me that much what they call it since it’s just an exhibition class. The saddlebred “hunter” classes don’t really feature what I’d call a hunter horse of ANY type and the saddlebred “pleasure” classes don’t look that pleasureable to me shrug but they’re called what they’re called. And the horses in the “unicorn” classes don’t have horns or immortality All kinds of class titles seem silly to me but as long as the prizelist is clear about qualifications/judging criteria and I know what I am entering, I don’t care all that much.