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Hunter/dressage stallions

Sport Horse Breeding
#1

I’d love to hear about stallions that have been successful in the American hunters AND dressage. I don’t see very many marketed that way, but those are my preferred rings and I am starting to think about beginning to shop for a next horse. I’m curious what registries/lines might fit this odd shaped box. Preferably some tendency toward chrome and not a bay or grey. But of course, movement is more important.

I’m not breeding anything, but I like to learn about what’s out there, and this is a good excuse to look at pretty horses.

#2

R lined horses are pretty well acknowledged as actually being good at both jobs. They don’t tend to have the extreme joint articulation that some of the modern dressage lines have, and generally have a great natural balance and rhythm in the gaits. They aren’t flashy from a dressage perspective but they are good and correct. They also tend to have a very nice jump. (Rotspon and Redwine are the hunter R stallions but many of the “dressage r” have offspring competing in hunters successfully.)

A less dynastic jumping/dressage line is Contendro (whose sire is a Cor de la Bryere grandson through Calypso II). As this is a specific sire rather than an entire line, there are fewer examples to research but Contendro mares are really well regarded in dressage breeding (the canters are super).

More broad: old G line. Grande is really the progenitor that I’m thinking of but Graf had a few other offspring that I think you can still find extant lines for. They’re really well known for jumping (Graf grannus, Graf top, grey top) but Grundstein I+II, Grande grandsons, are both reasonably visible in dressage breeding even now. You are more likely to be successful finding a jumping horse you like that can do dressage in the G line than vice versa-simply more of them jumping, I think.

The Argentan line is harder to find but well known for jumping (Argentinus) and then an Argentinus son, August der Starke, sold for a record breaking price at auction for dressage and his son Augustin was an Olympic horse for dressage. There are a few stallions out there that you can still find Argentinus reasonably recent in (again, almost all jumpers). Solo’s Landtinus comes to mind. You can find Argentan/Akzent II in more pedigrees further back but the most likely name if you’re looking for it in the first three generations is going to come through Argentinus…and at this point, he’s another stallion whose female offspring are really well regarded as broodmares for both jumping and dressage. I see him most often these days as a damsire of stallions if he’s close up in the pedigree in any way.

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#3

Devon Heir. The hunter people love his babies and they do well in dressage too. I have a homebred 6 year old mare by him and she’s lovely. Very easy to start and a real sweetheart. I’m an eventer and she’s a natural at dressage, but more like a hunter than a jumper in terms of how she jumps. Quiet, rhythmic, pretty. He’s a cross of the D and R Hanoverian lines, both among the most amateur friendly.

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#4

@Edre is right on.

R-lines are very good dual purpose stallions. I currently have two dressage bred ones that are now successful hunters. They are nice movers, good jumpers, and have fantastic temperaments, as have all the R-lines I’ve met.

Holsteiners (and most have Cor de la Bryere in there somewhere) are also a good option. Many of them aren’t going to win the hack, but have very good jumps with lots of scope) I have a Riverman mare who was a successful dressage horse as a youngster and later was my AO horse.

I think if you’re looking for dual purpose stallions, you can also look at USEF Eventing Stallion rankings. Many of those won’t have the flat kneed movement that wins in the hunters, but they’ll be passing on dressage aptitude as well as good jumps.

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#5

Wild Dance produces a very nice jumping style and has offspring as hunters as well as dressage. He was the champion of his stallion test with top dressage scores but also received 9s for jumping. Rubignon had an international dressage career , on the Swedish team but also got 8s and 9s from his Swedish test riders for jumping under saddle and has produced numerous well moving and jumping hunters with superb characters. Donarweiss same thing, Grand Prix dressage career with a junior but likes to jump and in great form, he also produced good hunters as well as GP dressage offspring. www.Eurequine.com

#6

Any debate on the subject of breeding for the jumper first as dressage bred first can produce a jump killer; but putting a jumper into a dressage line can produce more hind end strength and power?

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#7

Element Farm - I have a nice Riverman granddaughter (Royal Appearance x Final Poolxx) who takes after him - a multi purpose type and good at all.

But every time Riverman is mentioned here he gets slammed although he is Hilltop’s flagship stallion. There are a few up here starring in eventing and wonderful horses.

#8

I know many of his were said to be temperamental or a pro’s ride. My mare was, er, spicy, as a youngster, but matured into a very ammie-friendly, willing to work, mare. I’ve heard others say the same thing. And there are SO many successful eventing, hunter, and dressage horses by him (and ridden by amateurs), my experience clearly isn’t the outlier.

If I had the right mare, I wouldn’t hesitate to breed to Riverman.

#9

Thank you - my mare is the same, willing, kind, forward, brave…a few voices can do a lot of damage to a stallion’s reputation if we were to listen to them.

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#10

It is a bit polar in breeding goals these days, but many of the dressage horses make good hunters especially if they have a little jumper blood in them. So I would look for that. Navarone has thrown all around horses for ammys and pros and he has had international jumpers, dressage and eventers and a lot are doing super in the hunters too. I think more so you have to fit the stallion to what your mare needs to improve on whether it be the jumper or the movement to do both.

#11

Dreamscape farm had a dressage stallion Freestyle (who passed) who was a successful dressage sire but sired a son Farscape who was good at dressage but better in the hunters. After initial dressage training, they sent him down the hunter path and he did quite well, but I haven’t seen much from him since about 2015. They only have frozen semen from him.

Does anyone know what’s going on with him? How did his get turn out?

I offer this tidbit because I own his full brother. I ride dressage and have jumped him minimally (so I can’t say much about his form), but I think he would have done very well in-hand in hunter classes. He’s pretty gorgeous. I posted a conformation picture here on COTH about 5 years ago.

#12

Farscape is a wffs carrier and I believe he was gelded. He’s still on my radar because he’s all kinds of my type. I’d also be curious to see his get that is showing.

ETA- And id love to see his brother in action!

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#13

Oh wow, thanks! I don’t have many videos but I’m happy to send you what I can dig up and pictures. PM me with your email, I’m happy to send you stuff!

#14

Here’s my guy as a foal!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUWymV1oOeU

#15

Classy baby! How old is he now? How’s his temperament?

#16

We have bred to many “dressage” stallions over the years that have the right look, disposition, movement and jump for the hunters and have been very successful. In the US I would look at Dreamscape Farms and Edgar’s stallions and we have also used and been very pleased with Fresh Semen Stallions Dacaprio, Widmark, Sinatra Song & Harvard. Frozen we have loved many of the F and R lines stallions. We go often across the pond to make sure we are making the right decisions as we can see so many in a short amount of time over there and also see the dressage stallion jump in the licensings.

www.signaturesporthorses.com

#17

Gone now but I believe still available by frozen is the Trakehner stallion, Hennessey. I bred my tb mare to him twice and got one that loved to jump and one that loved dressage, although both could do either. The first was smooth as silk over fences but, since I don’t jump I sold her. I am always getting comments on the movement of the one I kept. Hennessey is the sire of the hunters Zito and Zealous.

#18

He was a nut case as a 3-6 year old. Despite the fact that the owner at the time purchased him as a foal and he was worked with regularly and started by a professional, whose half-brother imported at the same time went on the win the NA 70-stallion test, this guy was the apparent outlier. He was afraid of the world to the point that it really interfered with his starting and early years under saddle. The breeder wasn’t much help with my inquiries or very nice describing them after the fact.

He needed an alternative route of training after he bucked off an established trainer and she broke her collar bone. No area dressage riders would ride him as a 4 year old. I invested in alternative training to help him think through problems. Happy to send you a video of why.

He’s 10 now and has matured considerably. He has 3 good gaits, loads of “try”, a big and affectionate personality. He’s one of the smartest horses I’ve ever ridden, but also one of the spookiest/most reactive ones. He notices everything out of place and can get very upset by this - it is my job to convince him that he’s working and shouldn’t be upset. We have a great relationship now (words can’t describe what we’ve been through together) and he has very much taken care of me when we came back after his falling with me… Laaaaaaazzzzzyyyy as he can be until, for example today - a lady bug flew diagionally in his path and he elevated in front to see it and then splayed his front legs and wanted to spook. At a lady bug. Sure gave energy to our ride! I was able to harness this for a fantastic ride.

He is simultaneously very reactive/forward and lazy. Mr. 90%. He can easily get with the program and work, and has lots of talent and is very athletic. But he’s EXTREMELY insecure and needs a rider who can “hold his hand”. Right now, I love this horse to death because we have developed a great relationship, he’s really talented/athletic, and looooooooves to interact with me - try for me. He anticipates a lot because he’s smart, and this sometimes gets in the way, but we work to overcome this. I work with his personality to get the best I can from him, and I really REALLY enjoy this horse now. As a 4 year old? Not so much. Again, I think he was an outlier. And age really helped him.

#19

my guy as a 4 year old. Professionally started by a woman who bred WBs for dressage for decades and rode/trained to GP. She prepared his half brother (imported together) for his 70 day stallion test win.

The statistical outlier as a 4 year old after no local trainer would ride him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLu5r4jcHhU

He’s come a loooooong way and is a fabulous 10 year old. And he makes me laugh.

#20

Kudos to you for sticking with him and learning to understand him instead of labeling him as a "nut case"and throwing him away! He looks like maybe he needed more time getting used to the saddle than he got in that video. These horses do not have the same temperment as a quarter horse. I have a “sensitive” one too and I am learning how to deal with her. Looks like you are steps ahead of me so maybe there is hope.

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