Hunter forum

[Lord_Helpus]

Young horse jumping form
I know how to do this, but I am coming back after years of not riding (and am old) so I now have a trainer doing my horses: Questions: I have a lovely 5 year old who has just started courses and lead changes. Current trainer is not bringing him along as I would have.
When I try to discuss this, she gets very defensive

1. He is not square over fences unless he has lots of time to organize his body (i.e. his legs are square, but not tight, on long runs to oxers). But down lines, say, he is on the L lead, he gets into the air quicker with R front and never gets the L front up to the same height. Even when he gets both lower legs square, he "splits his legs and is not tight between his fore arms.
   I never had this problem. Will he ever learn how to be tight and square?
2. Lead changes: He is now doing them if rider really sets him up. I never had this problem because I rocked back to lighten the front end and asked for changes only when he was balanced to give me what I wanted.
   ----- My main issue is that I have brought along many young horses; enough to have different ideas than my current trainer. Do I a) tell her what I would do, B) Skulk around and find someone who starts babies the way I would (not easy in my area – everyone knows each others business), or send him out of town and hurt my current trainer’s feelings (and become the “bad guy” in town.
   There are no easy answers…

[mmeqcenter]

At the end of the day, he’s your horse, and you have very right to want him trained the way you want him trained. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad trainer, but there’s dozens of approaches to everything when it comes to training, and you should get what you want when spending your own money.

For me, it’s a red flag that she gets “very defensive,” assuming this means the conversation goes no-where or gets blown off. As the trainer, she should be able to have a reasonable discussion about her training techniques, explain to you the hows and whys she is doing what she’s doing, and be willing to take your opinion into consideration when you disagree. It would be quite easy for me to leave such a trainer. I have never been one to get on board with those who teach with the mindset of “my way or the highway,” both in regular life (school, “elders”) and with horses.

[Redlei44]

I have never met a trainer that likes (or responds well to) being told how to do their job by a client, and more importantly, I’ve rarely seen positive change in response to such requests. It sounds like you have pretty fundamental differences of opinion in how to bring along young horses. I would not hesitate to at least try to find someone else whose work I’d be happier with.

I agree with @mmeqcenter - a professional should at least be able to discuss issues and philosophies with you.

[Equkelly]

I think if you can’t do it yourself then you should find a trainer that has views that align a little better with yours.

Since you have started youngsters yourself you know very clearly what you would do, right? Now imagine somebody tells you to do things a very different way. It probably wouldn’t go well because to be effective you need to at least believe in your practices.

Trainers aren’t crash test dummies. You are paying them for their skills, their expertise, and their training. You’re not paying them to just be a glorified body double and do whatever you wish.

You may be totally justified in your training philosophies with the youngsters. I also have a youngster and I couldn’t find anyone to start her the way I wanted her started so I ended up doing it myself. I would either let this trainer do their thing or find someone else you like more. But telling someone how to do their job will not go over well.

[EmilyM]

Both problems sound like they could be a quality of canter issue. If he needs to be set up significantly to jump well and do changes he’s not pushing from behind imho. I would probably move to a different trainer with this horse. Not everyone is good at young horses. Shockingly many people are bad at teaching changes as well.

[SuzieQNutter]

It sounds to me like you are very experienced. It might be easier for you to find someone who can already ride and you teach them. Like an apprentice. However not all people who can ride can teach so be very mindful of that.

[Lord_Helpus]

Yesssss. You have hit the nail on the head. I was describing each individual problem, without backing up to see the commonality. COTH is great. ")

[Lord_Helpus]

I am replying to my own post because things tend to disappear, and I wanted to save the first part.
Now that I can step back and can appreciate what you are saying, I can even go farther back to know where this problem came from:
4 years ago, this horse was diagnosed with arthritis in his neck which would cause him to suddenly turn into a statue – frozen in place from 2 seconds to 2 hours. This is when he was a dressage horse and was being asked to really connect from back to front. I turned him out for 2 years, and by grazing (stretching his neck) – the problem disappeared. So we started him back as a hunter (where he excelled). But, to be very careful, we never asked for him to come through from behind (lighten his front end and ask him to ‘come back into the bridle and free up his front end) so the idea of creating a correct canter was not built into his training. He won a lot by flowing around, showing off his incredible, canter on light contact.
But at 2’9" - 3’, the omission became a problem. The trainer dealt with it by asking him from front to back — never improving the quality of his canter…!!!
Having a clear picture of the problem, I still need to find a trainer who can work with him the proper way. ------ Wow. COTH is great. I may just have to sharpen up my old skills and do it myself.

[EmilyM]

I’m glad I could help. Makes my day!

[Lord_Helpus]

Well said. I have contacted people for suggestions and we shall see. If I make a change, I will make sure that the trainer knows this is temporary and my horse will be back when the “hole” in his training is filled in.

[RatWrangler]

I’m confused. He was a dressage horse 4 years ago but is a 5 year old now? If he was really being worked as a yearling I could see a lot of reasons for problems!

[ghst13]

Is this the same horse you’ve previously posted about who was hitting rails behind last year and working on lead changes earlier this year? The timeline is a little confusing.

Horses can still be taught to come through from behind and work back to front without heavy compression of the neck or heavy contact. I agree with the other posters that there is likely a quality of canter issue.

I’d also keep in mind that his neck issues may be a limiting factor in jumping disciplines as well as in dressage. Neck issues can impact proprioception of the limbs. Are you doing any management for the neck arthritis?

[Lord_Helpus]

He is getting _______ injected into his neck about 3/year. It seems to help a lot, but the ability to flex his neck gets worse until we start the process again. He has been to NC state for MRI (and other exams which cannot be done by my local vet. The NC State vets, in conjunction with the Neuro vets at New Bolton have given his condition a fancy name. I had forgotten about it until his early trainer reminded me).

I think it is ANKYLOSING SPONDYTITSIS ( SP???)

To clarify other comments: The horse is 7 years old. If I have typed anything else that made my posts unintelligible please forgive me. I am really tired.