Google USEF Hunter Competitions and it will tell you. You can also google winning hunter rounds and watch YouTube videos.
OP was stating that it wonât impact your placing in the class if you had to braid to the left as opposed to the right for whatever reason. The judge isnât going to mark you down automatically for it.
As another poster pointed out in that thread, if placings came down to left or right braids that would be one hell of a class.
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Braiding on the left will stick out like a sore thumb, to me itâs the most obvious of the aforementioned myths.
Iâm a braider and trust me, any mane can and should be braided on the right.
Itâs not that any of these things are the reason you wonât win. Some of them just seem to go hand in hand with people who are new to the hunters.
Itâs also worth pointing out that the top level hunters in one area do not equal the top level hunters in another area. That goes for quantity and quality. I grew up showing in Ontario, groomed in Florida, moved to Alberta, then back to Ontario.
The B level (Trillium) hunters in Ontario usually had larger class sizes with nicer horses than the A circuit hunters in Edmonton and Calgary. Tbird was a bit better but nothing like the average A show in Ontario.
The reason I Point this out is because with fewer numbers the people showing with these âmythsâ will be more likely to pin and thus it seems more acceptable.
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As others have said, most of these arenât myths at all.
- D rings or eggbutts, or pelhams. Donât go into the hunter ring in some crazy hack-a-bit contraption, or other bit that is obviously for a strong horse. The point of hunters is to look effortless and smooth. Your bit should tell that story too.
- I think half pads have been ok for a while now, as long as they are a neutral color (not bright pink)
-White breeches for adults only, and only in certain cases. Juniors in the 2â6" hunters shouldnât be wearing white.
-Your braider can braid a left mane on the right. Itâs not hard as long as your horse doesnât have a bush for a mane. - True black tack is probably not going to go over well in a AA show. But at unrated/C shows is probably fine.
The thing is, unless you know for a fact you will put in the best round of the day, itâs best to not go against the hunter grain, especially in flat classes. When you are all standing in the center of the ring, that class very well could be decided by who is better put together.
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I agree if one goes against the norm you will be noticed for better or for worse.
These conversations about tradition in show hunters crack me up because show hunters are so far removed from tradition with regards to field hunters itâs not even funny. Itâs amusing to me how some traditions can be thrown out in the name of fashion but others cause heart burn.
I personally, do not care what people wear, what side of the horse the mane is braided on, what color tack the person has etc. I am way too busy with my own classes, horse, and nerves to notice half the time. If I do notice I still donât care.
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Again, nobody was saying âyou should braid on whatever side you want whenever you want.â Nor is anyone saying, âOh man, I see horses braided on the left ALL THE TIME.â The comment was that if you HAD to braid on the left for some reason (and I think it would be difficult for any normallly-taught, right handed person to do anyway), it is unlikely to bring the world to a screeching halt. And I commented that I think people would be hard pressed to notice the difference in person while the horse is in motion (I concede that pictures might be another story). I also gave an example of a horse I own that if I had to braid, I would likely braid on the left (though in the interest of full disclosureâŠif she was a hunter, I would have likely trained/pulled her mane to the right well before heading to any shows because I do try to be conventional where I can).
I just canât understand why anyone has such an issue with the image it would present. I honestly donât believe that any judge would go, âwell, the horse is perfectly turned out, found all eight perfectly, and hands down had the best course of the groupâŠbut that mane on the leftâŠsheâs out!â Nor do I think a judge would pull the clear winner from first to a lower ribbon for a detail like that. Could a tiny detail like that be a tie-breaker? Sure. But as someone else pointed out, those would be some crazy rounds to watch when it comes down to a detail like that.
I think what many people are getting at is that an âoffâ presentation is often indicative of a newbie/unskilled/inexperienced rider and is just the tip of the iceberg, and thatâs why itâs important to learn the conventional way to do things. But I still maintain that doing âoneâ thing for a legitimate reason is highly unlikely to result in any âdingsâ to your hunter or presentation score.
Oh and @TooManyBays Iâll add that I have a friend who got a screaming deal on a black saddle many years ago that she bought from an eventer who couldnât sell it. She cleaned up in the hunter ring in her black saddle. Again, she was always impeccably turned out except for a mismatched bridle (dark brown) and saddle (black).
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I believe all of these are myths. No judge worth his or her salt is going to tell you that any of the things on your list would put a horse out of the ribbons.
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Thatâs real. It applies outside the ring (very important). it works great for the cheap horse you could afford. I live by this one.
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I very much agree. Most folks who ride in show hunters would never do an actual field hunt. I never see any h/j hunter folks out on the hunt.
To me, this is another example of the lunacy to which the hunter world has gone so far beyond horsemanship. The claims that things like braiding on the left or right or colors of clothing are somehow indicative of horsemanship is just stupid. When appearances and presentation outweigh substance of ability in peopleâs heads, they have lost sight of what is truly important.
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You are absolutely correct.
I love tradition donât get me wrong. I just think if one is going to die on that hill, which I donât, one better have the correct amount of braids for their horseâs gender, and please ditch the field boots especially if one is wearing a shad.
Just saying.
But thatâs not reality. So Iâd advise to just worry about you and your horse. Turn yourselves out to the best of your ability, ignore my black tack and move on.
ETA: Only here will people argue with a scientist (you) about hair up or down and helmets, and people arguing with a USEF R judge about judging standards. :yes:
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Yeah, Iâve seen that too. I think that usually a black saddle with dark brown bridle isnât super noticeable, especially in French or Italian leather. I was more talking about matching black saddle and bridle⊠usually they also have a flash on too and a square saddle pad⊠then wonder why they didnât place very well.
I chimed in on the other thread specifically about braiding on the left because it made my head spin. Iâve spent the majority of my riding career in the dressage ring where you can braid manes on whatever side youâd like, and most manes can be done in 7-8 braids. Its glorious! And Iâve even ridden horses unbraided or roached at recognized USDF competitions.
I will be very open in admitting that I have been leery of hunters because of all the seemingly silly rules about equipment and turn out. I have met a lot of hunter riders who have no clue why they use a standing martingale or why they use the bit that they do. All they seem to know is thatâs what their trainer told them they need to have in the show ring. And on a semi-related note, I find all these comments about pelhams being frowned upon puzzling, because for all of the D-rings I see in hunter rings, I recall seeing an equal number of pelhams. And as someone with a lot of opinions in bits and tack, I assumed a lot of hunter riders are pretty ignorant.
It does make a lot of sense that newbs to hunters would have more unconventional tack and clothing, and therefore blame their poor placing on the judgeâs opinion of their turn out rather than their own poor riding. It happens in dressage too. Itâs hard to admit that you had a bad ride sometimes, or admit that maybe you arenât ready for the level at which you are competing. Judging bias is a much easier scapegoat and it makes everyone feel better about themselves.
Iâm going to give hunters a try this year, and I plan to test how important it is to have conventional equipment. I suppose it will be hard to factor in the impact that being new to this discipline will have on our placings, but I think I know a bad ride when I have one at this point. I bought a new StĂŒbben monoflap jump saddle because my horse LOVES it, and thatâs like the anti-hunter saddle. I am going to use a half pad alone with it, because never will I ever find a shaped pad that will be compatible with the extremely forward flap. And most of the show clothing I own is not explicitly illegal, but certainly pushes the boundaries of tradition. So I will be using my white breeches (because I own 6 pairs, and I donât want to buy any more pairs of breeches reserved only for competition-because what will I do with all of the white ones?) and my warm-weather show coat is burgundy, so that will really be interesting.
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RAyers, you donât know everything about everything, my friend.
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Darn-tootinâ some H/J types cross over into field hunting. Seen 'em and admired 'em with my own eyes. (I will admit, however, that my evidence comes from some well-mounted old ladies in Northern California back in yestercentury. You could see them on their very nice, very well-trained, well-turned out TBs out with the Los Altos Hounds and then in the A/O ring at the Menlo Charity Horse Show. That show was/is the Devon of NorCal).
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If you want to see equipment rules that are persnickety, you only have to go as far as any huntâs fixture to see an example. Seriously-- just about any hunt will specify in writing the Dos and Donâts of their get-up. Heck the dress code changes depending on the day of the week, your status in the hunt or the activity. And if you are not sure what you can wear, you need to call the secretary for a ruling on that.
2a. This is not to imply that everyone who hunts and follows those rules is a better rider or horseman than those who stay in the show ring. You can see plenty of bad riding and worse horsemanship out in the field. Plenty⊠with and without the stirrup cup as a contributing factor.
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I donât get the point of this. Dressage certainly has its traditions about turnout and tack too, especially at rated dressage shows. I have also meant many dressage riders who have no idea why their horse goes in a flash nose band or loose ring snaffle, only that their trainer told them that was what was best for their horse. Dressage riders can be pretty ignorant too. Donât think you are so special.
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@mvp, note, I said âmostâ not âall.â And I am very familiar with the hunts too. I was even blooded. I have several friends who are Masters of Hounds as well as various other aspects of several hunts. They gladly harangue me about hunt etiquette.
What I am pointing out is that show hunters have gone so far afield from field hunters that tradition based on practicality (dress that allows quick identification of who is who in the field, or protects against weather and injury,âŠ) that now people argue if minutiae are relevant.
The equivalent is that people have forgotten why wheels are on cars and how they actually function. They are more concerned with if spinners are allowed on 22s and not 16s.
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I learned to ride in the hunter discipline, to actually go fox hunting. I want my horse to go like the hunter she is-quiet, rhythmic, balanced, and patient, and consistent. This is safe. I want her to jump in great form. Granted, while she doesnât have the stylized, exaggerated jumping form rewarded in the arena, the elements are all there-sheâs balanced and calm off the ground, round in the air, knees up and even-because itâs safe.
Dress code can vary from club to club, and the time of year. Some clubs are very picky with their dress, others less so. Itâs part of our anachronistic sport, but thereâs more to it than that. Being careful with your turnout is important because it shows respect for the landowner. If someone is generous enough to share their land with me, the least I can do is show up clean wwith my shirt tail tucked in, so to speak.
Dressage gives you the benefit of having very explicit rules about what is legal and what is not. And as an equipment snob, it is really important to me that I can do my due diligence and make make my own decisions about what to use. And if a trainer, clinician or steward wants to ask me why I use something or give me guff, I am always ready with a well-thought out explanation. Conversely, the vagueness of the rules for hunters and the amount of discretion that the judge has means that people are encouraged to use the equipment that they see winners using, rather than look into what equipment is legal, and using what is most appropriate for their horse and what fits it best.
I agree that there is a ton of ignorance among dressage riders, and the flash noseband situation is ridiculous. I left dressage [for many, many reasons] feeling pretty disgusted with it, and I never meant to say that, as a discipline, it is any better than hunters. I may have thought that way not too long ago, and I may have initially thought Iâd just go to the jumper ring when I began this journey. But I have learned a lot, I have been having a ton of fun, and I have begun to think that maybe my horse and I are suited more for the hunters than the jumpers.
OPâs input as a judge gives me a lot of optimism that perhaps the competitive show hunter ring is more than, âthe person with the most money winsâ as people on the outside perceive it to be, and as dressage is quickly becoming. And that all of the whining is from a large, vocal group of sour grapes. So I intend to find out.
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CantfindmywhipâŠwelcome! I think you will enjoy hunter land
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@mvp my point wasnât to say that show hunters donât fox hunt any more or the like. However, I have met and ridden with people who wonât hack out. Iâve met these people in Dressage land too. I firmly believe people should turn themselves out for any discipline as correctly as possible.
I mostly dabble in eventing and have been toying with the idea of doing some Hunter shows. However, Iâm not going to go buy a new bridle and a new saddle because people donât like black. Iâm not going to randomly throw a martingale on my horse to âcreate a nicer picture.â That is something that Iâve read on here time and time again.
Of course people who have always shown or are going to show in the hunters shouldnât go buy whatever they feel like and do what they want. People keep saying g-you will get the side eye if one doesnât have the right color tack, or if the mane is braided on the left for whatever reason, or, or, or. Yet no one can answer who. I bet the people who donât pin well and who donât have all the âright thingsâ donât do well because they are new to it and are not going to spend the money on the âlookâ until they know if they like it.
When I started riding Dressage I did so in my close contact saddle. People didnât judge me for it nor did it impact my score from the judge. It did however announce to everyone that I was newbie.
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:lol:
Your evidence just blew itself out the window. I remember âyestercenturyâ too and back then âhuntersâ both hunted and showed.
Today, as @RAyers posted, show hunters donât hunt. And that is why nowadays people have to distinguish between âtheâ hunters and actual hunters by calling the latter âfoxâ hunters. It used to be that a âhunterâ was a horse that hunted, and might show in the off-season or between meets. Now they have had to be re-labeled âfoxâ hunters because show âhuntersâ have taken over, being as particular about terminology as about which side to braid on and what color coat to wear.
I doubt thereâs much time for counting strides out in the hunt field or making sure you take every fence at its absolute center.
But do âhonorable scarsâ still exist in the show ring? What about appointments classes, and hunt teams?
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