Hunter riders lying on their horses necks while looking down over the jumps?

[OnDeck]

I’ll be one to give as much of a real answer as I can.

I am one that really doesn’t like the trend, but I can see where it comes from. I did the equitation for a long time and still have a few trainer’s voices in my head anytime I feel something slip. But, when I ride a hunter, my thought is always “let him jump, big release, off his back”. In order to ensure you stay very far off the horses back during the landing, you tend to duck a little bit more, especially on a really hard jump. If rode hunters every single day, I can see how that would develop into an over-dramatized release.

[Ace1]

I get the dramatic release, but will need to read the archives about eyes down. OP, I am not that new, but I have often wondered about this as well.

[SidesaddleRider]

Actually, one reason for the change is the switch from outside courses on forward moving TBs, which typically causes them to jump flatter, to an enclosed ring with slower moving horses, usually WBs, that makes them crack their back more.

The flatter jumping, forward moving horses are easier to equitate on.

[SidesaddleRider]

Actually, one reason for the change is the switch from outside courses on forward moving TBs, which typically causes them to jump flatter, to an enclosed ring with slower moving horses, usually WBs, that makes them crack their back more.

The flatter jumping, forward moving horses are easier to equitate on. It can be H-A-R-D to stay with a back-cracking horse, and the riders know that it is all about the horse’s form, not theirs, so they do what they have to do to produce the nicest, smoothest round.

Even the jumpers had much more open, simplistic courses than you find today, and again, they were on TBs.

(Just to clarify, I am NOT saying that all TBs jump flat, and all WBs crack their backs. Absolutely not the case. It is just that the outside courses allowed for a very forward horse, and the style of horses used were different than what is most commonly found at the top hunter shows today)

[Silver_Silence]

I feel the same way OP. If I looked like that over fences I would go home and work on myself until I wasn’t embarrassed about photos of me leaking, looking like I was taking a nap on my horses neck.

I have never really ventured far from hunterland either.

Edited to add: I understand when you get to the big jumps, legs slipping a bit, and out of the saddle more. But, I will not ever get the “nap” look under 3’.

[HorseLuvr]

[QUOTE=Silver Silence;7598138]
I feel the same way OP. If I looked like that over fences I would go home and work on myself until I wasn’t embarrassed about photos of me leaking, looking like I was taking a nap on my horses neck.

I have never really ventured far from hunterland either.

Edited to add: I understand when you get to the big jumps, legs slipping a bit, and out of the saddle more. But, I will not ever get the “nap” look under 3’.[/QUOTE]

Haha! I really doubt I would be embarrassed of any photo, even if my legs were flying out behind the saddle if I had just won grand champion hunter rider at Devon.

[SnicklefritzG]

I just got back from a clinic with George Morris where he talked a bit about this trend and how he does not like it.

Some of the people in my group had problems with laying on the neck and/or ducking. George got on one person’s horse to show them what they were doing and how some of today’s hunter riders take it to an extreme. He then had people practice doing a long release, but with a tall upper body and no ducking.

This allowed people’s horses to jump well but without the stylistic issues of the other.

[Jsalem]

Look, I just got back from showing in these professional divisions at Devon. Let me tell you something- in the warmup ring, it’s all about the horse’s performance.
These riders are so incredibly accurate to the jumps: get him closer, take him left, get a front rub, leg at the base, take him right… They go to the ring focused on the horse’s performance. The horses jump in incredible form. These riders are amazing. I don’t even know what to say to the back seat drivers here that criticize these riders because they don’t sit pretty. I just don’t know what to say. Except- “let’s see you go out there and do it better”.

[IvyHall]

I am very guilty of this and I show my TB in the jumpers. He jumps very hard and likes me completely off his back and mouth in the air so he likes this style (obviously I understand that both are possible without ducking but I’m probably never going to be that strong of a rider). Thankfully he isn’t a stopper or else I’m sure I would have found myself on the ground several times by now. I continue to work on my position and think about him jumping up to me but my progress has been very slow.

At the end of the day, what I’m doing in the air is actually making my horse happy so I’m not too terribly concerned.

[Sing_Mia_Song]

Much as I find Kelley Farmer’s style distracting, I would lay on my horse’s neck until the cows come home if it made him jump like Mindful did today. Holy moly, that is one neat horse. His handy round was pretty amazing.

[TheJenners]

[QUOTE=Jsalem;7598207]
Look, I just got back from showing in these professional divisions at Devon. Let me tell you something- in the warmup ring, it’s all about the horse’s performance.
These riders are so incredibly accurate to the jumps: get him closer, take him left, get a front rub, leg at the base, take him right… They go to the ring focused on the horse’s performance. The horses jump in incredible form. These riders are amazing. I don’t even know what to say to the back seat drivers here that criticize these riders because they don’t sit pretty. I just don’t know what to say. Except- “let’s see you go out there and do it better”.[/QUOTE]

This again and again.

[ElisLove]

Everyone says ‘back in the day’ but have you ever looked at pictures of riders from ‘back in the day’. Sure, there are some pictures of great equitation, just like there are pictures from ‘present day’ that show great equitation.
But you also get pictures like this
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10390238_277411985772335_8566687585834908567_n.jpg

and this
http://www.showjumpingnostalgia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/John-Whitaker-Milton-Olympia-1985.jpg

and this
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjQoTbci68rC_WkpB8DNECvsnsyu167IzU6Tk7lN7KZ3yc_71Y

I don’t see how anyone can say that equitation has gotten less important/worse.

[karasha]

[QUOTE=ElisLove;7598375]

and this
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjQoTbci68rC_WkpB8DNECvsnsyu167IzU6Tk7lN7KZ3yc_71Y

I don’t see how anyone can say that equitation has gotten less important/worse.[/QUOTE]

YEEHAAWWWW – seriously, how did he kick his leg up in the air like that? That’s almost more impressive than a textbook equitation round… almost

[snaffle635]

Ondeck, SSR, and JSalem - thank you for your very informative posts. Super helpful!

[Mukluk]

If the horses jump beautifully and the riders ride like that then why even bother with equitation? It sounds like a matter of “form” George Morris style equitation is completely unrelated to function. Does the horse care if you ride text book GM style vs the “new” way? Just wondering.

[Silver_Silence]

[QUOTE=HorseLuvr;7598179]
Haha! I really doubt I would be embarrassed of any photo, even if my legs were flying out behind the saddle if I had just won grand champion hunter rider at Devon.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I would.

I am not speaking specifically about riders at Devon either, I’m more speaking to the amount of riders that are taught that this is okay at the low levels. It always ends up looking like riders are showing beyond their skill level when they throw themselves on their horses neck/attempt to jump for them. I know I use to. Coach never said boo about it. I fixed it myself. Far from perfect, but I don’t pinch with my knees or nap on my horses neck anymore!

[HorseLuvr]

[QUOTE=Silver Silence;7598473]
Interesting. I would.

I am not speaking specifically about riders at Devon either, I’m more speaking to the amount of riders that are taught that this is okay at the low levels. It always ends up looking like riders are showing beyond their skill level when they throw themselves on their horses neck/attempt to jump for them. I know I use to. Coach never said boo about it. I fixed it myself. Far from perfect, but I don’t pinch with my knees or nap on my horses neck anymore![/QUOTE]

Well, don’t you deserve a gold medal…

[Silver_Silence]

[QUOTE=HorseLuvr;7598486]
Well, don’t you deserve a gold medal…[/QUOTE]
Hardly. Guess you’ve missed my point. It’s discerning that some coaches don’t say much about riding like that? I’m really not trying to be an ass by the way… :no:

[Nikki]

I asked GM about the hunter riders of today and why they do this Drama Riding style. He said that they were lazy. There you go. :lol:

Here are some lovely pictures:[URL=“http://horsecollectablesforsale.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/2/13520673/6809559_orig.jpg”]

http://horsecollectablesforsale.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/2/13520673/6809559_orig.jpg

http://horsecollectablesforsale.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/2/13520673/1101745_orig.jpg

Joe Fargis is so good, he points to where he wants to go!

http://horsecollectablesforsale.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/2/13520673/2565027_orig.jpg

Billy Steinkraus was always styling. This style would win in the hunter ring, even today:
http://horsecollectablesforsale.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/2/13520673/6903714_orig.jpg

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/24/b7/6c/24b76cf9e1ad61f798e8002435acde29.jpg

Even when his horse hits a bad spot, he looks good:
http://37.media.tumblr.com/4ae72ea76584453ed73322ec3eaefad4/tumblr_miaxksvWFC1qhtihqo1_500.jpg

Here’s Marcia “Mousie” Williams, 1966 on Blaney (back cracking horse) http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7d/4f/10/7d4f1006208d46c8715211e2f43e165b.jpg

Now this is what I call cracking it’s back:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d0/49/c9/d049c905cd728e23bfe6e78e23ecd16f.jpg

So looking good over a big jump can be done. They aren’t perfect all the time, as nobody is perfect 100% of the time. When I snap a picture of a back cracking hunter and the rider is looking classical, it makes the picture that more appealing.

[doublesstable]

OP, first - welcome You picked a subject matter that is always up for debate, like the crest release vs the auto release… What like to do is go on the search and search up what I am curious about. If nothing pops up then I will start a thread. Not saying you cannot start whatever thread you want but you will find comments that may seem to come from left field. At least you will have some warning…

On the subject question; Jsalem and Ondeck have echoed my thoughts on this. I tend to do that duck sometimes and I am thinking I am helping my horse by staying out of it’s way and giving him a big ole happy release - - but the reality of it - - I must remember as an amateur I am not helping my horse… I must focus on staying balanced, quiet and have a soft following hand… Those pros may get into certain habits that to the lay-person may seem ridiculous… but they really know what they are doing and how to make a horse have an amazing round.