Hunter Stallions For Arabian Mare

[Montanas_Girl]

Since my quest to find my next Half Arabian hunter prospect has been an abject failure, I’ve decided that the best way to get what I’m looking for is going to be to breed for it. I’ve got a couple of options of very nice Arabian broodmares to lease, both of whom have recently produced lovely warmblood cross fillies, so I have some idea of what both mares can bring to the table. Most of the nice Half Arabians I’m seeing are more dressage than hunter oriented.

Since I’m still in the researching phase, if you were breeding for a Half Arabian hunter, which stallions would be on your short list, and why? My primary concerns are a VERY good jump and canter (always a weakness in my beloved Arabs), correct hind end conformation, a strong loin, and a great mind. While adding height is always going to happen with this cross, I’m not looking for any giants, as I’m only 5’1". If the resulting foal tops out anywhere between 15.2 and 16.1, I’ll be perfectly happy (both mares are around 14.3). I’m counting on the mare to add refinement, but I’d still like to steer clear of the very heavy, old style stallions. I prefer a smaller, lighter, more forward and sensitive type of ride. I don’t like to feel like I’m dragging/kicking my horse around the ring. I’m not terribly picky on color, but I’d like to avoid grays if at all possible.

All that said, who should I be looking into?

[stripes]

Awesome that you want a HA Hunter! Breeding this cross totally depends on the Arabian mare you are using. Not sure where you have looked to purchase a HA Hunter prospect or what your budget may be, but there are some really nice open worthy HA Hunters available.

I think the first questions I have are can you give info & photos of the Arabian mare? And… Is the Arabian mare approved in any WB registry? That’s just for starters.

Adding height doesn’t always happen, I know many of this cross where the mature foal is the height of the dam (Arabian) or sire (Arabian). You need to really do your research for this cross to hope to have the best possible outcome.

[Didi]

First of all, I know NOTHING about Arabians. I have been in the hunter world for 40 years, however. I recently bred to Crown Affair (who is 16.3 hands). He is a Holsteiner - a breed known for hind end strength and good feet. Crown Affair specifically won many prestigious competitions both as a hunter derby horse and as an Amateur Owner hunter horse. He has many videos online. He is dark bay, has impeccable blood lines, and a wonderful temperament. I cannot WAIT for my April foal!

[Montanas_Girl]

I know this cross can be all over the place, which has been part of the frustration in shopping, I think. I’ve looked everywhere from breeder websites to Dreamhorse type listings, and everything in between. I’m just not finding a lot of(if any) Half Arab, true hunter types, even babies, at all, never mind anything within my price range. So, breeding it is! I’m not a novice breeder/young horse buyer, so I feel fairly confident with my choice.

I’m not comfortable posting photographs of mares I don’t own on here, but I’m happy to give more information. One is mostly Polish/Russian bred on top, by a Padrons Psyche son, and out of a Bay El Bey/Khemosabi bred mare. The other is a mostly Polish NV Beau Bey daughter. Both are very correct, structurally. Neither is approved with a WB registry. Having the foal inspected isn’t a concern of mine; AHA papers will be enough for my purposes.

There are so many nice Arab crosses out there, but, like I said, the vast majority of breeding has focused on dressage type offspring. I understand why this is the case, but I’ve also seen some lovely hunters. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of consistency as to which stallions are used for this purpose, so knowing where to start in narrowing down a list of options is more difficult than I’d like.

[Ssporthorses]

I would look at Balta’Czar as a hunter stallion who is not too old fashioned and heavily stamps his offspring. They all have very good hind ends too.

[Montanas_Girl]

Thank you! Balta’Czar is definitely on the short list. His seems to be a love it or hate it bloodline, from what I can tell, but everything I’ve seen points to a promising cross on an Arabian type mare.

[RFFDelightful]

You’re having trouble because it’s not born yet! (I have one coming in March) :lol:
That said if my purebred were not older and happily retired from the breeding shed, I would take a look at AQHA & APHA stallions. If you look at the hus horses they tend to be good movers, with good jumps and great minds. (Sky’s Blue Boy blood, A Chance For Romance, The Big Sensation, Hot Ones Only, Coats N Tails)

[Montanas_Girl]

Funny you should mention that, RFF, because the horse I’m looking to “replace” (as if that were really possible), is 75% Arab, 25% Appendix QH. Indian Artifacts IS available to me via a stallion auction. However, as much as I love my old guy (who has done everything from team penning to 3’ hunters), I’d like something with a better canter and jump for my next mount.

[stoicfish]

Does it matter if the mare is the Wb?
If it didn’t, I would grab a proven jumper or jumper producer Wb mare and cross it with an Arabian stallion that is a jumper. I think it would be easier to find an outstanding Arab stallion then a mare.

http://tranquillityhorsefarm.com/Oration.html

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10732115

[Montanas_Girl]

Since I come from the Arab world, it is easier for me to find a nice Arab mare to take to a warmblood stallion than vice versa. I definitely wouldn’t oppose the opposite cross, but I don’t think it is an option at this particular moment in time.

[TrueColours]

If you are considering an Anglo Arab - I would definitely recommend my Guaranteed Gold TB stallion. He has produced some really special Anglo’s over the years …

www.TrueColoursFarm.com

If it is strictly warmblood, I’ll second the Balta’Czar suggestion, along with Sir Wanabi, the new Coronet D’Honneur stallion in AZ, MAYBE Westporte, Roc USA, to name a few …

Good luck in your search!

[acottongim]

Trakehners have traditionally crossed very well with Arab mares.

The SSA is going on right now (ends tonight) http://atassauction.com/auction/search_results.asp

from that group of boys that don’t have bids yet you may want to consider, Platinum Von Rappenhof who is provenin the hunter ring himself and who have produced it, Stiletto who has several HOY for 2014 for hunters (and who has a sterling career himself), Peron who while a dressage sire crossed onto aan Arab mare and produced a versatile approved son (not sure if you can cross onto the son who is also in the SSA) and Cardinali who is just an awesome little guy (I know him personally) and ridden by a YR.

I know now a few people that bred their Arab mares to TK and they go for both ATA and HA awards.

[sixpoundfarm]

I worked for an Arabian farm that did the show Hunters, PB and HA, and from my observation, what the National level show Arab market wants for a Hunter is far, far, far different than what the actual ‘Hunter’ folks want. In type and movement.
What wins in those divisions would get the gate in the A Hunters.

[stripes]

[QUOTE=Montanas_Girl;8009474]
I know this cross can be all over the place, which has been part of the frustration in shopping, I think. I’ve looked everywhere from breeder websites to Dreamhorse type listings, and everything in between. I’m just not finding a lot of(if any) Half Arab, true hunter types, even babies, at all, never mind anything within my price range. So, breeding it is! I’m not a novice breeder/young horse buyer, so I feel fairly confident with my choice.

I’m not comfortable posting photographs of mares I don’t own on here, but I’m happy to give more information. One is mostly Polish/Russian bred on top, by a Padrons Psyche son, and out of a Bay El Bey/Khemosabi bred mare. The other is a mostly Polish NV Beau Bey daughter. Both are very correct, structurally. Neither is approved with a WB registry. Having the foal inspected isn’t a concern of mine; AHA papers will be enough for my purposes.

There are so many nice Arab crosses out there, but, like I said, the vast majority of breeding has focused on dressage type offspring. I understand why this is the case, but I’ve also seen some lovely hunters. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of consistency as to which stallions are used for this purpose, so knowing where to start in narrowing down a list of options is more difficult than I’d like.[/QUOTE]

Without seeing the mares it really is impossible to give you good advice. I can tell you that with Psyche you will need to seriously choose a stallion that passes on a good disposition with excellent work ethic and rideability along with excellent feet and a strong hip. With NV Beau Bey you have a highly inheritable “high/low” heel or what I will call a “club foot” issue along with tight shoulders and HEAT. So keep in mind that a WB stallion will need to overcome these issues.

I have an Echo Magnifficoo/Bey Teyna/*Salon/*Elimar mare that is AHS approved that has crossed well with Escudo II & Landkoenig. The Escudo II is 5 yrs. and would be an excellent Hunter if I wanted to do that - right now she’s proving to be a very nice dressage horse for me. My Landkoenig colt was sold to Tranquillity Farm. I have also seen many HA crosses that are very suitable for Hunters by Rosenthal & Rubignon. Rosenthal has many HA get, but crosses with Bey Shah can have tougher dispositions. Rubignon has crossed very well with Psyche bred mares. I’m using him this year with my TC Miyake/Aulrab/Gokart mare to hopefully turn down the heat.

Just one word of advice… if the mare doesn’t jump, don’t expect the stallion to bring it. Since it sounds like you have your chosse of mares, pick the one with the best jump and go from there.

[stripes]

[QUOTE=Montanas_Girl;8009474]
I know this cross can be all over the place, which has been part of the frustration in shopping, I think. I’ve looked everywhere from breeder websites to Dreamhorse type listings, and everything in between. I’m just not finding a lot of(if any) Half Arab, true hunter types, even babies, at all, never mind anything within my price range. So, breeding it is! I’m not a novice breeder/young horse buyer, so I feel fairly confident with my choice.

I’m not comfortable posting photographs of mares I don’t own on here, but I’m happy to give more information. One is mostly Polish/Russian bred on top, by a Padrons Psyche son, and out of a Bay El Bey/Khemosabi bred mare. The other is a mostly Polish NV Beau Bey daughter. Both are very correct, structurally. Neither is approved with a WB registry. Having the foal inspected isn’t a concern of mine; AHA papers will be enough for my purposes.

There are so many nice Arab crosses out there, but, like I said, the vast majority of breeding has focused on dressage type offspring. I understand why this is the case, but I’ve also seen some lovely hunters. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of consistency as to which stallions are used for this purpose, so knowing where to start in narrowing down a list of options is more difficult than I’d like.[/QUOTE]

Without seeing the mares it really is impossible to give you good advice. I can tell you that with Psyche you will need to seriously choose a stallion that passes on a good disposition with excellent work ethic and rideability along with excellent feet and a strong hip. With NV Beau Bey you have a highly inheritable “high/low” heel or what I will call a “club foot” issue along with tight shoulders and HEAT. So keep in mind that a WB stallion will need to overcome these issues.

I have an Echo Magnifficoo/Bey Teyna/*Salon/*Elimar mare that is AHS approved that has crossed well with Escudo II & Landkoenig. The Escudo II is 5 yrs. and would be an excellent Hunter if I wanted to do that - right now she’s proving to be a very nice dressage horse for me. My Landkoenig colt was sold to Tranquillity Farm. I have also seen many HA crosses that are very suitable for Hunters by Rosenthal & Rubignon. Rosenthal has many HA get, but crosses with Bey Shah can have tougher dispositions. Rubignon has crossed very well with Psyche bred mares. I’m using him this year with my TC Miyake/Aulrab/Gokart mare to hopefully turn down the heat.

Just one word of advice… if the mare doesn’t jump, don’t expect the stallion to bring it. Since it sounds like you have your chosse of mares, pick the one with the best jump and go from there.

[stripes]

[QUOTE=sixpoundfarm;8009840]
I worked for an Arabian farm that did the show Hunters, PB and HA, and from my observation, what the National level show Arab market wants for a Hunter is far, far, far different than what the actual ‘Hunter’ folks want. In type and movement.
What wins in those divisions would get the gate in the A Hunters.[/QUOTE]

I’m guessing she’s looking for an actual Hunter vs a Hunter Pleasure horse. They are gaining popularity in the Arabian world and people are beginning to understand that you really need a Hunter as they are judged by actually open Hunter judges.

[capricorn]

Check out Donnarweiss. Although he competes in dressage, he has some jumping genes and has produced hunters. He scored 9’s for jumping technique and rideability in his 30 day test. He is 16 hands and known for his good temperament.

[Montanas_Girl]

[QUOTE=stripes;8009966]
I’m guessing she’s looking for an actual Hunter vs a Hunter Pleasure horse. They are gaining popularity in the Arabian world and people are beginning to understand that you really need a Hunter as they are judged by actually open Hunter judges.[/QUOTE]

Yes, stripes is correct. I want an actual hunter that just happens to be Half Arabian, not a Hunter Pleasure horse. My current gelding, while definitely NOT bred for it, was very competitive locally and at the smaller rated shows at 2’6" and 3’. This is a tough niche to shop OR breed for, so patience is going to be required, either way.

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Most of these stallions were already on my radar screen, but some hadn’t occurred to me. That was the whole idea behind this thread.

[horsetales]

Rosenthal is top hunter sire and has crossed nicely with arabs

[Montanas_Girl]

So far the top contenders (in no particular order) are:
Balta’Czar
Rosenthal
Cabardino
Furst Impression
Paparazzo

Thoughts?