Yep I realize that, I had her tested through UC Davis for FFS at my friend’s urging and while I was at it I threw in some hairs for the color test too, she’s heterozygous for agouti 
I would love to share pix but apologies for being cryptic…she’s very unique in a recognizable way and too much of my real identity would be out there. I’ll PM you if you’re curious
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I am just going to throw out C Quito only because a friend of mine bred to him and hers is very ammy friendly.
Uhhhh, PLENTY of VDL approved stallions end up here in the USA, both through private sales and via the WEF auction. Fabriano VDL is the first example that comes to mind (though he is now a gelding).
C Quito is also now a gelding, so would be frozen only. The only C Quito I knew was Jump!, who was lovely, but her dam Fine Kiss was also a very nice horse (by Ferragamo, also traditionally thought of as a dressage stallion).
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My Don Alfredo checks all your boxes (out of my Simbalu mare who I would have been very happy to clone). Unfortunately I don’t believe he is available any longer. My guy is now 10 and a big red lap dog amateur hunter. I’d repeat the cross in a heartbeat.
FWIW there are two Redwines in my barn. Both very pretty. Neither is anything close to my definition of amateur friendly. But my bar is pretty high as my guy is the same every single day since he popped out 10 years ago.
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I have a 2021 Landkoenig colt who’s the quietest easiest baby I’ve ever had. In fact, we haven’t bothered to geld him yet since he has zero understanding what ‘that’ is for. If I had a suitable mare and was open to using frozen, I’d love to use Landkoenig again.
Lots of people recommend Apiro and he’s also well known for adding chunk. I had a mare in foal to him for 2020, but sadly lost the foal at the very end (nearly lost the mare as well). But since that breeding, I’ve had more contact with Apiro offspring, and am not aaaaassss much in love with him. He definitely adds chunk, and the offspring are fairly quiet, but of the three I’ve known well (including one I owned) none had any work ethic to speak of, and two had some sort of vague NQR-ness going on that contributed to performance challenges.
I love the R line hanoverians (from Rubinstein) but agree that that some of the Redwine offspring aren’t ammie -friendly. OTOH, I would never use him anyway due to associated owner and EVA status. I also have met several P-lines that are temperamentally difficult.
If the mare would be a good match, I love the Quaterback offspring, and while most I’ve known aren’t going to win the hack, temperament and jump were consistently good. And there’s a lot to be said for a good old fashioned ‘dual purpose’ type horse.
It’s tough, because it takes a several years for a stallion to have offspring old enough to evaluate their performance careers. and then you only have a limited window with him before he’s deceased or potentially has fertility challenges.
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Agree with the Apiro assessment completely from @ElementFarm. If you find a great one enjoy them but I wouldn’t roll the genetic dice trying to make my own.
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@ElementFarm and @fourfillies Thanks for the Apiro info! I’ve had a few people message me privately to say similar things so he’s mostly off of my list (which has evolved quite a bit since this thread began lol).
@ElementFarm Do you have any experience with Landkoenig under saddle? What I’m finding is that a ton of studs produce charming, quiet, sensible foals that are generally easy/pleasant to work with but that that doesn’t always translate to rideability and pleasantness under saddle lol. Good luck with your colt though, he sounds lovely!
Yes, there have been a number of competing opinions on Redwine as I’ve done more research but it looks like he’s out of the running regardless due to some ethical issues related to his connections. Do you have some examples of the P-line? I don’t think I’m familiar!
Yes agreed! Quaterback is definitely an option provided the mare is a good fit, I like him a lot.
You’re absolutely right about the narrow window of using stallions. There are a few I like that are up and coming but I just can’t justify the breeding without an older foal crop on the ground. Despite the actual stallions being quite nice it’s really hard to know what they’ll produce under saddle when they only have weanlings on the ground.
I really appreciate the insight, thank you!
@fourfillies your gelding sounds like the dream! I’d love it if I could find something that produced that kind of reliability consistently, definitely the kind of ammy friendly behaviour I’d like but I know finding that is tough and a lot to ask of some horses lol. Redwine is very pretty himself but has been eliminated from the list for a number of reasons.
Does anyone have any thoughts on Bliss MF or Cunningham? People seem to be obsessed with them both on FB (Ontario Eq groups and Hunter Breeding groups) but I’ve heard and seen very mixed reviews. Would be interested in any thoughts/experiences you guys have! Alpine has also popped up recently but I know next to nothing about him other than one Alpine x All the Gold cross I liked (from video lol). Others I’ve been looking at more recently include Checkmate, Valentino, El Salvador (Tangelo vdZ in his pedigree), San Remo (I think one of Kat Faqua’s horses is by him but don’t quote me on that), and Corragio but I have limited info and opinions on most of these lol.
Thanks again guys, it’s always so nice to hear everyone’s experiences and opinions!
No experience with Landkoenigs of any age other than mine. And I agree, sometimes quiet babies are unusually difficult to start, while some challenging foals are straightforward and easy to start and bring along. My colt’s dam is suuupppeer sweet on the ground, but a bit of a pistol to ride, so it’ll be interesting to see how her son does.
P line is from Pilot, and that line includes Pablo and Pablito. I’ve known a handful and many were not ammie-rides without a lot of training and mileage. Paparazzo sired many successful HB and performance hunters, but I never met any personally.
We have two Cunninghams showing locally that I know of. One is lovely and my trainer, who I respect on bloodlines, recommends Cunningham because her client’s was so easy. The other one is owned by a nice ammie (and vet who has a small scale hunter breeding program) and that one is spicy and quirky and being ridden by a pro who is good with difficult horses. It’s a gorgeous horse, but definitely needed a good program.
I LOVE Checkmate. A friend had a stunning 2yo homebred by him that was sadly lost in a pasture accident. I bred one mare to him last year, but Fed Ex delayed the shipment and the mare didn’t take. I will say the SO wasn’t the easiest to work with, but if I breed again in the future, I would love to use him.
I have had 2x Bliss homebreds. Both are very friendly and easy horses. I backed/started both myself with no drama. One just recently sold as a 5yo to very good dressage home. The other I still own (now 6yo) and hoping to start her hunter career this year. While both of my homebreds have good brains, aren’t spooky, and are attractive and good movers, I would not use him again. Both of mine ended up significantly smaller than expected and smaller than both of their dams. I’ve since met other breeders who had the same problem (and other breeders who had the same problem from other BdR sons). My bestie has a young Bliss gelding that is 17.2 and wears a 54" girth–he’s huge, but there’s a very statistically relevant percentage of his offspring that end up little. And it’s heartbreaking to have a horse with the WHOLE package, except that it’s only 15hh. Other than that, I loved mine, and would very happily buy a horse by Bliss, as long as it was already the height I wanted.
I would not use Alpine. He stands locally and while he does stamp his offspring, he’s not a stallion I would use. (feel free to PM if you have specific questions). Valentino is getting used by people I respect, but haven’t met any that were under saddle or performing.
There are several Lordanos horses successful in sport, and a few North American stallions by him that look lovely.
I will repeat my statement about R lines. I’ve had, I think 6 of them now? And every single one was sweet, quiet, and sensible to own and ride.
Many of the stallion owners out there are very honest about their boys, and what they pass. I’d reach out to Edgar Schute (Eurequine) and Kathy St Martin (Avalon Equine) and ask them which of their stallions might be a good match for your mare. I would trust their opinion, as they’ve both been doing this a long time.
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Chiming in as I have a Landkoenig mare (out of a TB I owned). She was a pretty easy foal and easy to back (backed her solo). She’s incredibly smart, downside to that is we had a bad experience or two that has made her very noise adverse and nervous in traffic because she remembers everything! She’s also very much a Mare, so when something is not right in her world she will let you know (bad farrier work, saddle fit, etc).
Those two things coupled with my complete lack of time the past couple years have kept us from progressing in a traditional sense, but - knock on wood - we’re on a consistent schedule again and she’s got a great stride, plenty of scope, and has figured out how to hunt the jumps. Could be a hunter if we could go without a sound dampening bonnet. For being pretty big (16.3ish and 81/82 blanket) I find her quite rideable when she’s focused and I’m just 5’4. She goes in a Nathe and has no inclination to pull but is very athletic when nervous 
. I would have another Landkoenig any time.
@Marabel - I do! I purchased a dose last summer and have it stored in case I ever wanted to use it in the future. But now I’m not so sure I want to go down the breeding route again lol!
@DiamondJubilee I’m new to the forum, just happened to come across your reply. Would like to connect with you for details.
I have a 2013 Cunningham (owned since 2) he is the easiest sweetest boy, has never done anything truly naughty in his life. If he spooks at something once (and it is a spook in place), he never spooks at it again, he gets over it real quick.
We have battled a NQR for years now though. He’s very big, 18+ (dam was big too) so that doesn’t do him any favors.
My observation about hunters in the US is that they need to display certain characteristics right from the get-go or they’re out of the running with most highly successful huntertrainers. These things are not trained in, they are natural. If the horse does not show them as a youngster, the trainers will pass on them.
First of all, they don’t need the scope that a jumper does, and they don’t need the uphill balance that a jumper does. They really don’t need to be as good jumper as a jumper…they either have “The Look” at the top of the jump, or they don’t.
What they need is absolutely metronome rhythm, enough scope to make the jumps look easy, and a great front end. Relative to a jumper, they need to be a little dull. Super quiet to the jumps. The market has shifted to accept more knee “action” than in the past, but in general the hunter world likes a flatter mover than the dressage world.
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Since this thread was resurrected, OP @Henley497 did you end up buying or breeding anything?
I don’t know how i missed this thread last year, but FWIW, I bred two Balta’Czar babies out of 2 different mares. He consistently improved the canter, stamped his classic Hunter jump and both kids have fantastic, ammie-friendly brains (though in both cases, so did the dam). 
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I did! I had a Sir Wanabi baby due April ‘22 but unfortunately the mare miscarried at full term 
Instead I ended up with a Rotspon x Benetton Dream yearling filly that my breeder had retained for herself!
Overall very very pleased with her, she is VERY sweet and affectionate and is incredibly teachable. Just really good natured and easy going all around which is great. I will say for all her fantastic qualities she will absolutely not tolerate any bullying at all, and has a strong sense of fairness (poor thing learned this the hard way after she had a really rough farrier appt while I wasn’t present) but honestly I don’t mind that, even being an amateur.
I’ve had excellent success with her “asking nicely” and profusely rewarding progress and that seems to work for us (plus a new farrier who’s more patient with her baby moments). She’s been really great about new things like blanketing, flailing/flapping things, small yappy dogs in her space, x tying etc. She is a little looky around machinery but she doesn’t do much more than tense a bit and look and I’m okay with that kind of reaction, especially at this age! We’ve just started introducing the bridle to her in anticipation of showing on the line this summer. So far she seems game, but I’m happy going as slow as she needs so we’re building confidence and not compromising it.
I’m debating breeding her via ET in a year or two. Balta’Czar is still high on my list, plus a few other newer stallions that look promising (big fan of Citadel owned by Britta Anderson and Sandra’s new stallion Central Time looks nice) but waiting to see how she matures before contemplating it too seriously.
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Balta’Czar looks like a super good match for my mare, and the way he is listed to improve a horse nails what I need improved on my mare. When/if the time comes, he is high on my list.
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Balta Czar is known for throwing the good temperament, nice round solid feet (awesome to breed toTB mares) and he is exceptional for limb soundness. I bred two. Raised and started both easily, still have one here for 17 yrs. He looks and behaves much younger. The only lameness he ever had was a small bout with cellulitis. Zero injuries, no joint issues, no injections - and he ran eventing up to Prelim. Could have been a bigtime jumper or a *eventer but was limited by our resources. The gelding has the balanced jumper canter and the filly had the big walk. Between the feet and the soundness they saved me a ton of money! Gelding is a 16.3 bay; mare is 16.0 black bay, very huntery and a doppelganger for BC’s dam, Jete.
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