I see a lot of jumpers and eq horses advertised as good “derby horses”. Is this big talk advertising? Or are the requirements for these hunter derby’s so different from the regular hunter ring that these horses can expect success?
In most cases, I think it’s just going along with what’s hot at the moment.
Some of it is hype, but I agree that what used to “just” be an equitation horse, now can do quite nicely in the derbies. Kelli Cruciotti’s horse Monterrey might be a nice example.
The main difference is you have no hack in the derby. Some superstar derby horses would not pin well in the hack. You do want a rhythmic canter, but you don’t need ultra flat knees to be competitive. They can also have more brilliance and spark than what you would think of as a traditional AO or conformation hunter.
The way the scoring works, handy bonus points can really change the results in a derby. Compare that to a traditional handy class, you could see a winner not making the tightest turns and end up on top with the smoothest rounds.
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A personal pet peeve exposed here. I am very opposed to jumpers becoming Derby horses. This is for a simple fact. The Derby was created to be a more realistic representation of the origins of Hunters - the fox hunt. It was originally supposed to be more in line with a Hunter Trial in that there were to be natural jumps, water, banks, jumping into a course rather than a hunter circle or canter to the first jump, etc. It has been bastardized into a glorified high hunter course. A Hunter is supposed to move like a Hunter - looking long through the bridle, flat-kneed, smooth. Very unlike a jumper. Rant over. Having said my piece, it seems like the Derby is devolving into just another jumper course.
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It seems to me that a hunter derby horse must be able to jump on an angle, with little “hunter type” preparation in the line taken to the jump, be able to jump from varying pace (gallop) and gait (trot fence?). While most of this is largely rider dependent, some horses may not have this level of training to be able to do this, or may not have the courage to do some of what is asked in a derby course. A green horse is usually not a derby horse (at that moment- may develop into one in time). A horse advertised as a horse who can do both is a horse who has more training on it, when ridden by a competent rider can do a derby class.
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As the jump is paramount in the derbies, some jumpers/eq horses who have great jumps but may not be the nicest of movers can cross over and yes, have success. Especially in the nat’l derbies. And usually they are not at all fazed by the questions asked in the derby whereas some “hunter specialists” may not be so excited about a trot jump or rollbacks or picking up the canter at the ingate and going straight to the first fence, , etc.
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i’ve seen a lot of splinter belly jumping, bad moving horses marketed as derby horses. i think the source is what governs what is big talk vs what is real. not sure if that helps with any insight.
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I feel like I’ve seen it a couple ways. I’ve seen some horses that jump beautifully but in a style that probably requires a pro on it, so a way to advertise them is as a derby quality horse to give it more jobs when they’re perhaps not as ammy or jr friendly.
On the other hand it’s definitely a way to promote one that doesn’t move well enough for the regular hunter divisions. My now retired pony had derbies come around too late in her life, we did three of them at 2’6 before she retired (ribboned in every one out of 30+ entrants in the kinds of early local derbies that offered 2’6 and 3’ height choices) and she was the quintessential derby horse. Had the jumping style of the best hunter you could ever hope for and was very handy and brave but a poor mover. She kept a rhythmical canter, never spooked or looked and gamely jumped anything. If you want to talk about a field hunter, she was your ideal. Would happily take you to anything you pointed her to (in fact used to drag me off trail to jump logs). So to me it’s definitely a way to advertise something that, on the flip side of being a pro ride, is very ammy/jr friendly but perhaps a poor mover with a great jump and a super reliable personality. You can do derbies and have a great time on a horse like that.
A derby horse needs to have a super athletic jump and a bouncy, powerful canter plus the flatwork to control both the movement and jump around the trickier handy courses. They need to have the power from behind to jump perfectly even over something upright and airy, a jump you don’t see in the regular division. Plus the derby horse needs to give you the impression that he’s nowhere near the end of his scope.
A winning hunter may definitely have these things but it’s not required, in fact a flatter jump and a flatter canter is often rewarded. Some of them (especially junior/ammy horses) have just enough flatwork to do your average handy course well but get stiff if you ask for too much more. A great junior/ammy horse or even a regular working horse aiming towards indoors tends to be unflappable beyond anything else while a derby horse can have more spark and be a more complicated ride.
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So which is it? Has the derby been bastardized to a high hunter or devolved to another jumper? Both cannot be true.
Advertising is advertising…don’t believe that that product on Instagram will give you a perfect at home manicure, and don’t believe every jumper in this world makes a crossover.
That said, there are a lot of jumpers with a fantastic jump that have too much blood for your average hunter class or amateur rider. They might excel in the derby ring where forwardness (with ease), tricky questions, and brilliance are found more often. IMHO it has nothing to do with the movement (other than it can’t be a plow horse across the ground). Plenty of non hack winners out there in the “regular” hunters,
Many jumpers have become hunters and vice versa. When I was a kid, my first children’s hunter later became my junior jumper, then when I aged out and was a working student and teaching beginner so couldn’t do the AOs, I showed him with some success in the 4’ Reg Workings. This was in VA so a pretty strong place for nice hunters too. He often got a piece of the hack, classic TB daisy cutter, son of Castle Magic.
My KWPN filly’s sire is a VDL stallion who was Best Young Horse in at the East Coast Jumper Finals. He was gelded and sold as a kid’s hunter and has done well at WEF and everywhere. Definitely worth more as a hunter, and he’s carting kids moving up from ponies.
Not to mention, basically everything imported from Europe under saddle was a jumper first.
This is far from a “Derby horse” thing.
