Hunterland vs. Eventingland

[doublesstable]

I think Greg Best’s photo is unfair to use because the blog does not talk about Jumpers and their pros and cons. This blog really focuses on lower levels of Hunters and Eventing leaving out Jumpers and Equitation divisions. I understand Stadium Jumping being compared to Jumpers… but there are horrible Jumpers riders too and for fairness should have been added to the discussion if a Jumper riders photo is used for a “how to do it right”.

The OP’s blog - It would be great if the OP could talk to people more and do a bit more research.

True journalism is NOT all opinion based. It should have forms of research and studies before I think it is credible. (but I see this blog of more of a rant)

With others experiences and research it would be a more fair and well rounded read.

Some Hunter riders breed or train their own horses and don’t spend millions on the horse. They feel it’s rewarding to bring a nice young horse along. Some pay for a nice horse because he/she can clearly do the job and it’s fun.

This can be true of other disciplines as well. I wouldn’t hold either choice against anyone… believe me - after riding a top Eq horse the other day I would buy it in a heart beat - it was a BLAST…

For many of us this is about having fun, being with our horses, socialization and just good exercise. It’s all what you make of it.

[yellowbritches]

I don’t have time right now to get too into this right now, but as an eventer turning to the h/j land with a h/j friend who just did her first event, all I’ll say right now is that everyone’s mileage will vary. Both sports have their high points and low points, and you can make exactly what you want out of either sport.

Frankly, in the end, I think most of us want the same thing: to have fun with our partners.

[FatCatFarm]

Interesting the responses. I have been competing at beginner novice eventing for the past year on my Saddlebred x Percheron cross, and would probably move up to Novice next year. I am 48, work full time, commute nearly 700 miles a week, have a husband and a 9 year old daughter, aging parents and keep my horses at home on our 17.5 acres. I love eventing and the people. Well, I love cross country and show jumping but I have grown to truly dislike the micro managing and subjectivity of showing dressage. I don’t mind riding it to make myself and my horse perform better, but I hate showing it but strictly because of the subjectivity. If I never show dressage again, I could die happy. I probably will though, but hopefully that will only be if I ever have to give up jumping. Funny, I used to think jumping was so hard, but now that I’ve gotten better at it, it’s showing dressage that bugs me.
While I do love eventing and eventers, and everyone’s can do attitude, I am going to start concentrating on show jumping as I am feeling spread too thin with all of my other commitments. I have found it’s just too hard for me to master three disciplines/skill sets and think I will be happier trying to be good at just one. Here’s hoping anyway.

[yellowbritches]

[QUOTE=FatCatFarm;7864311]

While I do love eventing and eventers, and everyone’s can do attitude, I am going to start concentrating on show jumping as I am feeling spread too thin with all of my other commitments. I have found it’s just too hard for me to master three disciplines/skill sets and think I will be happier trying to be good at just one. Here’s hoping anyway.[/QUOTE]
Funny you should say this.

For various reasons, after dedicating most of my adult life to the sport of eventing (rider, groom, sometimes coach, on and on), after a bad fall and some time to think, I have chosen to move into the Eq and jumper rings. Part of the side benefit of that decision is definitely the easing of pressure to get really good at all three phases. I still do good flatwork, but I’ve taken the pressure off of my horse to try and make him something he’s not (a dressage horse). We aren’t having to do all the galloping and conditioning that it took, even for a little TB, to stay safe at prelim+, and are now just focusing on our jumping. He’s happier and more relaxed, and I am, too.

I had a lot of fun eventing and am proud of the horses I made in that sport. But I am just as happy to pursue other things now and focus on other aspects of my riding (and my life. Having an UL horse, even just a baby UL horse, takes A LOT of time).

But, like I said in my post from yesterday, everyone’s experience is going to differ a lot on what their world view is. My friend, an accomplished h/j rider, did not enjoy her foray into eventing. She didn’t encounter the warm, welcoming community that is often touted.

As an eventer turning jumper, yeah, I miss ride times. But I love the ability to say “Oh, that sucked. Let’s enter the next class and see if we can fix it.” Eventing can be pretty frustrating with only one shot per phase per show. You have a bad dressage test, show jumping round, or xc, that’s too bad, so sad. At most h/j shows you can find something else to enter and try and fix a problem instead of letting it fester.

And it isn’t just the hunter kids getting bought the fancy horses. A lot of juniors in eventing end up sitting on some pretty spectacularly made horses, or at least VERY fancy ones. Heck, there’s a young girl in my barn who’s family just bought her an FEI level dressage horse. She’s only gone up to First Level. I have no problems with that. You still have to learn to ride those horses (and those fancy, made horses don’t always equal easy).

The sports are different and attract different types of people. They both have their demons. They both have their shining bright spots. We can all stand to learn a lot from ALL the different sports. And we could all stand to realize that most people who willingly spend gobs of money on a horse show of any variety are doing it because they just want to have fun. Their fun might be playing in the little white box, nailing 8 perfect fences, or galloping cross country…but, at the end of the day, all they want is a chance to spend the day showing off their favorite being in the world- their horse.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7864563]
Funny you should say this.

For various reasons, after dedicating most of my adult life to the sport of eventing (rider, groom, sometimes coach, on and on), after a bad fall and some time to think, I have chosen to move into the Eq and jumper rings. Part of the side benefit of that decision is definitely the easing of pressure to get really good at all three phases. I still do good flatwork, but I’ve taken the pressure off of my horse to try and make him something he’s not (a dressage horse). We aren’t having to do all the galloping and conditioning that it took, even for a little TB, to stay safe at prelim+, and are now just focusing on our jumping. He’s happier and more relaxed, and I am, too.

I had a lot of fun eventing and am proud of the horses I made in that sport. But I am just as happy to pursue other things now and focus on other aspects of my riding (and my life. Having an UL horse, even just a baby UL horse, takes A LOT of time).

But, like I said in my post from yesterday, everyone’s experience is going to differ a lot on what their world view is. My friend, an accomplished h/j rider, did not enjoy her foray into eventing. She didn’t encounter the warm, welcoming community that is often touted.

As an eventer turning jumper, yeah, I miss ride times. But I love the ability to say “Oh, that sucked. Let’s enter the next class and see if we can fix it.” Eventing can be pretty frustrating with only one shot per phase per show. You have a bad dressage test, show jumping round, or xc, that’s too bad, so sad. At most h/j shows you can find something else to enter and try and fix a problem instead of letting it fester.

And it isn’t just the hunter kids getting bought the fancy horses. A lot of juniors in eventing end up sitting on some pretty spectacularly made horses, or at least VERY fancy ones. Heck, there’s a young girl in my barn who’s family just bought her an FEI level dressage horse. She’s only gone up to First Level. I have no problems with that. You still have to learn to ride those horses (and those fancy, made horses don’t always equal easy).

The sports are different and attract different types of people. They both have their demons. They both have their shining bright spots. We can all stand to learn a lot from ALL the different sports. And we could all stand to realize that most people who willingly spend gobs of money on a horse show of any variety are doing it because they just want to have fun. Their fun might be playing in the little white box, nailing 8 perfect fences, or galloping cross country…but, at the end of the day, all they want is a chance to spend the day showing off their favorite being in the world- their horse.[/QUOTE]

Well said…

[anmoro]

I think it’s a great blog. It calls out both sides on their flaws. As someone who grew up in H/J land and has recently purchased a horse that wants to be an eventer (YIKES), I can see both sides. Some of my best friends are eventers.

I’ve lessoned with eventing trainers but recently went back to a H/J trainer. I think it is all personal preference. I like the H/J trainer because they focus on me and they are not afraid to call me out for my flaws. When I screw up, they tell me.

I think to categorize all H/J riders as needy and event riders as DIY could be stereotypical. Yes, I like a trainer schooling me over fences. I admit, it’s my security blanket. But to say that is only H/J riders that do that is wrong.

I was stewarding a “fun” show recently that offered H/J, CT and dressage. Honestly, the CT riders were the most needy. They complained about every jump being too scary ("it’s okay horsey, you can jump that mean, awful, wishing well) and they also complained when we refused to hold the ring.

That being said, that is not all eventers. But the 40+ at this show seriously had their panties in a wod about everything. For once, it wasn’t us hunter riders making a stink.

I must say, I very much so agree on the part about hunter riders perching and laying flat on the horses neck, compared to eventers not releasing and hanging on mouth and slamming back in the saddle too fast. In fact, I recently asked a very well known event rider/trainer (up north) about the lack of release and hanging. Her response amazed me. She was very quick to point out that you see it more in certain regions and it often has to do with lack of balance. I found that interesting.

[PaintedHunter]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7864563]
Funny you should say this.

For various reasons, after dedicating most of my adult life to the sport of eventing (rider, groom, sometimes coach, on and on), after a bad fall and some time to think, I have chosen to move into the Eq and jumper rings. Part of the side benefit of that decision is definitely the easing of pressure to get really good at all three phases. .[/QUOTE]

Aw, but the beauty of being a newbie hunter-turned-eventer for me is that I have the built-in excuse to be a rather mediocre rider! :lol: “Well I can’t be good at all three! IT’S HARD…YOU TRY IT.” Lol.

[HiHopes]

I come from the UK where we don’t have your US style hunter classes. Since I have been here I have shown in three day events, CDS dressage and jumper classes. I am based at a yard with a show hunter trainer.
You’re three day eventers are most similar to how we compete abroad. The eventers have their lessons at home and go to the events more on their own or with family and friends. You meet up with other eventers you see on the circuit, you help each other.Its the same with showjumping and to a certain extemt dressage although it is more common to see dressage trainers with their clients at shows in England than with the other disciplines.
The H/J land baffles me here. I LOVE the US jumper classes, they are so much fun. I’m not used to this ‘trainer’ thing though. I am used to doing the training at home. We also cross train (compete) across different disciplines more so there is more understanding between competitors.
Shows here in Cali (apart from the local schooling shows) are no way near as friendly. Quite snooty has been my experience which is a shame even the eventing which was friendlier still was more cold than Im used to which is weird when everyone im general lif is much more approachable.
Oh also its against the rules to have outside assistance in England, you get eliminated if someone ringside shouts instructions to you! It is generally a knowledged as well that the warm is for everyone. You have to share (like eventing here). People try to hog the warm up jumps but it’s not allowed.
I would say for eventing though across the two countries. It’s a high risk sport. The stakes are much higher than in Hunters. The stakes could be your life or your horses life heaven forbid. If your fellow sportsmen don’t have your back who does?! Who else can understand perfectly the ups and downs more than the competitior in the next stable. I think that aspect is what gives event riders that bond.

[bambam]

While there is some truth to the post, it paints with a ridiculously broad brush on both disciplines (and I call bulls%$t on the claim that not a single rider in the training division releases their horses mouth over fences at VA Horse Center at the recent event- esp since I have seen video of a couple of the rounds there where riders were not catching their horse’s mouth- inaccurate hyperbole does not serve the OP’s purposes here, it simply discredits the entire post. Yes, I see cringeworthy riding at every event I go to so there is no need to make inaccurate statements to make your point). Frankly, the post makes absolutely no new points and does not seem to seek to provide any real insight or start a constructive discussion. Sincerely, Rider who has spent considerable time in both disciplines.

[Rosie]

meh

Sorry, but throwing out the same old cliche’s and then saying “discuss” is pretty lazy journalism IMO. Or maybe the desired result is re-hashing the same old arguments about lazy, wealthy, bitchy, trainer dependent hunter riders vs. down to earth, friendly, brave but not so polished in their equitation eventers. ? Yawn.
There are lots of ways to approach a story about the differences of hunters and eventing that might lead to interesting discussions.
This “article” isn’t one. Hopefully there will be more interesting fodder in the next installment.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=Rosie;7874089]
Sorry, but throwing out the same old cliche’s and then saying “discuss” is pretty lazy journalism IMO. Or maybe the desired result is re-hashing the same old arguments about lazy, wealthy, bitchy, trainer dependent hunter riders vs. down to earth, friendly, brave but not so polished in their equitation eventers. ? Yawn.
There are lots of ways to approach a story about the differences of hunters and eventing that might lead to interesting discussions.
This “article” isn’t one. Hopefully there will be more interesting fodder in the next installment.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I said something similar -
True journalism is NOT all opinion based. It should have forms of research and studies before I think it is credible. (but I see this blog of more of a rant)

[Blugal]

My beef was the amount of negativity. The article starts by asking, “Can’t we just learn from each other?” but then goes on to state nasty cliches about each sport. Why not go with some positives instead?

E.g. it was great that I was able to use my hunter saddle in all three phases of eventing. I can tell that working on my dressage will improve my flatwork with my hunter. Etc.

[Alternative1]

There is bad riding in every discipline.

[WuzTrooper]

Just a point to ponder … for those concerned about “journalism” …since when does a blog carry with it the same duty of care regarding fact that an article in a media outlet would? The post was meant to be an amusing insight into her recent equestrian adventures, a successful one IMHO.

Where I live, I spend a lot of time watching/helping/volunteering at local shows/events and I can tell you that in areas without strong coaches that have experience taking folks to above the 3’equivalent in any discipline, the faults mentioned in the blog entry are spot on for the primary ones I see in hunters, jumpers and eventers - doesn’t make them ubiquitous, just pretty darn common.

yellowbritches is spot on.

[Appsolute]

I can’t say that I completely agree with, or enjoyed anything presented in that blog.

Sorry.

Signed eventer who has also done the H/J thing (although more medals / eq. and jumpers - but some hunters as well). Both at the same time for a number of years. They are not mutually exclusive. My H/j trainer did not hand hold any more than my event trainer. And both taught competent riding - including not snatching my horse in the mouth.

[Rosie]

blog or post to BB?

Well, Wuz Trooper, If I came across a personal “blog” with the same content as the OP posted, I would basically ignore it. Nothing of interest to me,not particularly insightful, but I wouldn’t start an argument on her “blog” or probably even comment.
When it’s posted here on the BB, with a provocative “zipping up my flame suit” comment - I assume the poster (a journalist) is asking the audience for their comments and thoughts about what she has written.

[hb]

I’m an eventer turned hunter. I do miss assigned times, but like the way you run through 2-3 courses in a row and get to fix mistakes and build on the last course in the hunter/eq classes.

I had several years off from jumping since I last evented, and last summer just got my toes wet in the Long Stirrup division. One thing I thought I would miss is the comaraderie I felt at events - people competing against each other but still supporting each other. The first couple of h/j shows I went to it seemed that no one spoke to anyone that wasn’t from their same barn.

At the next show I decided to do something about that. I saw a rider in my division who looked very nervous in warm-up, and as she went to the show arena I said “have a great ride!”. Exactly what we would do at events. She brightened up, and remembered me the next day. By the end of the show most of the riders in our division, from multiple barns, watching each other’s rides, cheering each other on, talking about how the courses rode and supporting each other just like I had experienced at events. I’m not sure if this was easier in the Long Stirrup division, as we were all older, nervous ammies who were just happy to be showing, but it didn’t take much effort to break the ice.

People are people, whether they go to a h/j show with their trainer and groom or sleep in their horsetrailer at an event. I’ve done both and still, like Yellowbritches said, am just happy to be having fun with my horse.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Blugal;7874231]
My beef was the amount of negativity. The article starts by asking, “Can’t we just learn from each other?” but then goes on to state nasty cliches about each sport. Why not go with some positives instead?[/QUOTE]

You have a point: You can’t grab hold of an olive branch…. and then light it on fire and wave it around cussing everyone out, yanno? You performatively undermine your original “can’t we just get a long” statement by proceeding to trash both sides.

Yes, it’s a blog…. not journalism, not a paper submitted to a peer reviewed journal. But this entry in the OP’s blog seems less worthwhile than others. I seem to recall Jaffe writing about topics like concussions or fear after falls and things.

[karasha]

[QUOTE=mvp;7860496]
FWIW, I think most horses would rather be given the soft , tactful ride over fences that the American show hunter is taught to pursue. But you don’t need to have that to have a good stadium round.[/QUOTE]

Yes. This. Exactly this.

When I get my horse to that absolutely perfect distance, it’s very “soft” feeling. The take off is soft and floaty, the landing is soft, he canters away very calm, happy, and rhythmic.

If I was only good enough to pilot my horse to get that perfect soft spot every time

My horse “behaves” better when we jump in hunter mode. So while he’s only doing single-line-diagonal-line-diagonal, he’s much more attentive. It’s why I ride handy rounds and equitation classes with hunter in mind, rather than jumper.

[RugBug]

What I learned from eventing:

The answer is always forward…aka impulsion. If your horse is in front of your leg, you will almost always be fine.

What I learned from hunters:

My horses know what they need to do. They do not need me to ride every single step. Get them where I want and then get out of their way. They appreciate it.

Honestly, I haven’t found one group or the other to be friendlier. I find if I’m friendly, people tend to respond in kind. Ive also seen attitude in both. Oh, and I’ve had to hurry up and wait in both. Stadium round in a three day is reverse order and depending on presentations, d ring drags, etc can have you sitting around for a while…at least in my experience