Ok, my flame suit is on. Here’s my new blog post about the differences between Eventingland and Hunterland.
Oh good, we haven’t had one of these threads in at least a month. :rolleyes:
Well I think we might consider the personalities of the folks who are more drawn to one than the other.
Eventing: I think this attracts the adrenaline junky. I don’t think there is anyone in eventing who LOVES dressage and hates XC.
Hunting: I think this attracts someone who likes a beautiful round at a nicely controlled canter.
Also budget:
I think you can probably do more and be more successful in eventing with a less expensive horse- say an OTTB. My impression is that you probably need to spend mega bucks to have a competitive hunter.
Subjectivity:
The judging on hunters- I suppose you will never really know exactly what happened. I can only hope that it is fair.
The judging in eventing. Dressage: A written score with blow by blow comments by the judge (yes this could be subjective but at least you know exactly what the judge was thinking). XC and Stadium- time and number of successfully cleared jumps.
But I suppose the more important thing is that we all love horses and I hope are having fun with whichever discipline we have chosen.
Kumbaya. Namaste. A wonderful day is wished to all!!!
I think the post is pretty accurate, and points out positives and negatives of both. My older horse events with a young trainer friend of mine and loves it, and I love going and supporting my eventing friends. The ride times are amazing- I would be so happy if that came to the jumper world (which is what I do with my young horse).
I’ve found that eventers are not only more DIY in all sorts of ways, which is admirable when they are good riders and can be scary when they are under-prepared cowboys, but they are often a bit friendlier toward each other. Not always, but as someone who has spent a huge chunk of her life showing in the H/J world I find the atmosphere at events to be more open and relaxed and supportive in general.
I love showing in the jumpers and I have no desire to event myself (although a good gallop on my older guy over XC fences is a blast), but there are many things about that side of the sport that I admire.
Why fan the flames of an old batch of stereotypes? No other topic was available. That’s just click bait–nothing new in the content so far as I can tell.
I will say that both sides seem to misunderstand the relationship between riders who have autonomy (don’t need the trainer right there in order to solve problems) and what counts as solving a problem.
I do agree that every rider should have a plan for warming up her horse-- getting the best jump and most ride-ability from her animal before she goes into the ring. That’s what the hunter folks need their trainers for. And most of the time, the rider can get most of that done herself. IMO, however, there are times when someone needs some eyes on the ground and certainly someone to set poles in order to really optimize that performance.
But when eventers pooh-pooh that tuning-up project as hunter riders being too needy, I think they are implicitly brining a lower standard of performance to the game. By that I mean that their competition doesn’t require the quality of jump and ride ability that a winning hunter round does. FWIW, I think most horses would rather be given the soft , tactful ride over fences that the American show hunter is taught to pursue. But you don’t need to have that to have a good stadium round.
I liked your blog post Jody.
Though I’d consider it as another incarnation of the philosophy of “why”.
Why does anyone do any of the things they do?
In the words of mountain climber George Mallory in response to a question from an interviewer from the New York Times in 1923…
“Why did you want to climb Mount Everest?”
Mallory answered: “Because it’s there.”
Mallory died climbing Mount Everest in 1924.
I think there’s a facet of human nature which tends to except as important, those things that “are there”.
We could look at the concept of mob mentality, where people react off of each others behavior, and do things that they probably would never do if it weren’t for observing others doing it. In some case all it may take to create a riot, are a few people acting out, and the rest follow like a cascade of falling dominos.
The answer to you questions about Hunterland vs, Eventerland, I fear, may be as simple as a the concept reflected in Mallory’s historic quote “because it’s there”.
Because equestrian activities have become an established industry, your average person does not need to ask “why” to participate. All they may need is a passion for horses, and an excuse to give that passion more meaning than a simple “I love my horse”.
We live in a society that creates expectations of success, and people live among a culture of peers that celebrate success as important. Yet very few ever actually ask in great depth “why” a “something” is important, because obviously it must be important, if others think it’s important.
Much of what our cultures has established as important today, may have replaced things that were important in the past. We should also expect that the future will bring new things that are important, to replace some of those things that are important today.
Many things in life are of genuine importance for survival and the continuance of civilization, and a lot of the other stuff are just the things we call fashion and fads, and the importance of those things are subjective to a simple rule of popular belief.
So I think the question about horsemanship, is a question of a deeper meaning of the concept of “why”, if one desires a better answer than “because it’s there”.
It’s up to the individual to desire the deeper meanings of why, so they may shine a light of understanding on what is “popular”, examine it, and separate the “fashion” from the “facts”.
I’m not an eventer never have been but I’ve plenty of friends who either do that discipline or used to. I am a hunter/jumper rider now predominantly just hunters. I think your blog is a little jaded and simplistic about both disciplines. There are plenty of people riding well and badly in both disciplines. I’m not dependent on my trainer but it is the custom to have him there when his students compete… also part of his compensation model. 
I don’t get lessons at a horse show unless it happens to be a non showing week of a long circuit. I’ve never really thought of learning anything from my eventing friends as I’m too busy trying to perfect my own ride in my own sport. I respect we ride different disciplines with different goals and norms. Isn’t that enough?
I thought the blog was pretty spot on especially the ring conflict/ trainer co-dependency. I would love to see a little less dependency/more autonomy with H/J riders along w/ less vocal coaching from the gate/ringside. At a certain level does a rider really need to have their coach railside for their U/S class? I’m not talking about some big equitation final but your standard 3’ A/A hunter U/S. Do you really need to hold up the ring for 30 minutes while we wait for your trainer? No. The answer is, honestly, no.
[QUOTE=equisusan;7860999]
I’m not an eventer never have been but I’ve plenty of friends who either do that discipline or used to. I am a hunter/jumper rider now predominantly just hunters. I think your blog is a little jaded and simplistic about both disciplines. There are plenty of people riding well and badly in both disciplines. I’m not dependent on my trainer but it is the custom to have him there when his students compete… also part of his compensation model.
I don’t get lessons at a horse show unless it happens to be a non showing week of a long circuit. I’ve never really thought of learning anything from my eventing friends as I’m too busy trying to perfect my own ride in my own sport. I respect we ride different disciplines with different goals and norms. Isn’t that enough?[/QUOTE]
Whether it’s enough depends on what the individual is seeking.
There are classical underling principles common to all disciplines of horsemanship (disciplines that rely on the classical underling principles as a foundation).
When someone thinks of the different disciplines as “different”, are they aware of what they have in common?
In my experience I’ve known plenty of trainers with clients who show. Rarely do I experience the “typical” trainer who emphasizes studying classical horsemanship, because that requires a student who is passionate about the subject, and a trainer that actually understands the classics well enough so they can teach them.
But many students just wants to go to some shows, hang out with their friends, and have fun with their horse.
Nothing wrong with that.
But what of those students who would be very interested in studying the classics, but are not exposed to them, and thus do not know what they are missing?
While it is certainly true that there is bad riding in eventing (or, insert discipline here) - just saw some of it scribing for the stadium judge at a local ht today - I would venture to say there is bad riding in all disciplines.
One could compare the bad riding and try and decide which tends to be worse, but your blog actually looked at some systemic, structural aspects of low level hunter showing (no ride times, holding rings for trainers, not being able to warm up without a trainer, etc) with some bad riding visible in eventing.
It’s a little bit apples and oranges.
If you accept what some responses here have offered by way of nuance, you could argue that since hunters seeks subjectively judged style of jumping, it requires both a very particular kind of ride and horse, and thus a lot of professional micromanaging to produce that result. Eventing jumping (leaving aside the dressage, where I think really focused professional warmup, which most of us don’t get, could help a great deal) does not revolve around this kind of subjective style…and thus certainly allows or encourages a certain amount of seat of your pants skills.
Clearly these appeal to different types of riders and it is probably fruitless for one set to convince the other their way is de facto superior.
As an eventer, I will say that the level of control exerted by some A barns over their clientele in all aspects of horse keeping seems profoundly out of whack, and I see that as completely distinct from the competitive aspects, but perhaps I am missing something. Being told what brand of blankets to buy or never knowing what, exactly the vet or farrier did to my horse wouldn’t work for me…
So much of the hunters is based on style and way of going. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it’s just not everyone’s cup of tea. The hunter scene reminds me of what it is like being a supermodel. Not everyone is built like a supermodel which is one reason why they make so much money per hour. If everybody looked like that to the point that body type was a “dime a dozen”, I think it would be a different story.
One thing I like about eventing is the objectivity in the two jumping phases. It is difficult to argue with the clock. I also like being able to walk away with a score sheet from the dressage phase so I can get some tips on how to improve for the next time around.
[QUOTE=Mukluk;7860137]
Also budget:
I think you can probably do more and be more successful in eventing with a less expensive horse- say an OTTB. My impression is that you probably need to spend mega bucks to have a competitive hunter.
Subjectivity:
The judging on hunters- I suppose you will never really know exactly what happened. I can only hope that it is fair.
The judging in eventing. Dressage: A written score with blow by blow comments by the judge (yes this could be subjective but at least you know exactly what the judge was thinking). XC and Stadium- time and number of successfully cleared jumps.
But I suppose the more important thing is that we all love horses and I hope are having fun with whichever discipline we have chosen.
Kumbaya. Namaste. A wonderful day is wished to all!!![/QUOTE]
I don’t see how this blog post does anything to help eventers and hunter riders learn anything from each other. All the author has done is to point out the negatives of each discipline. I read the introduction expecting to read an essay on the positives of each one, and what aspects of each discipline could be a benefit to riders from the other. It really ended up being a bashing of each discipline, which we can read right here on the forums on a regular basis.
I don’t think the author’s intent came through at all in the end product. Which is a shame, because I do think she meant well.
Genuine, non-snarky question for the OP.
What was the intended purpose of this blog post? Because as far as I can tell, all it’s going to do is “poke the bear” for 2 disciplines.
If it was meant to be lighthearted and funny, a sort of joking around “here’s what’s wrong with our disciplines,” I think you may have erred on the side of too sardonic. I can easily see people taking offense to this - and I can’t say I’d blame them.
I forgot to mention this: the 14 year old who bought the Hunter Derby champion has shown the horse in the Junior Hunter division quite successfully since she bought him; however, they have certainly not been unbeatable. No bulldozer required.
Somehow I doubt the other juniors who are beating her on occasion are riding 15,000$ horses themselves.
I find the eventing crowd to be extremely laid back and just out there to have a good old time. I have shown hunters for 20+ years but I have attended a few events in recent years. Sportsmanship seems to be at the top of the list for me with the eventing crowd. I always have so much fun when I go.
On another note: I compare eventing to show jumping. There is no politics, no questioning a pinning of a class. What you see is what you get with the results. You either jumped clear and within the time or you didn’t
[QUOTE=snaffle1987;7861475]
I find the eventing crowd to be extremely laid back and just out there to have a good old time. I have shown hunters for 20+ years but I have attended a few events in recent years. Sportsmanship seems to be at the top of the list for me with the eventing crowd. I always have so much fun when I go. [/QUOTE]
IME, a lot of this has to do with the attitude that you go in with. I showed in the Midwest this year for the first time, as opposed to the east coast (where I grew up), and I had so much fun getting to know everyone.
Now, you could probably chalk that up to “Minnesota Nice,” but I think a lot of it had to do with how I viewed everything, in the sense that I wasn’t expecting or waiting for people to be standoffish or rude. I think it’s easy to slip into the mindset of “hunter/jumper people are so rude” and then interpret actions differently as a result, i.e. thinking that someone cut you off on purpose or is holding the ring up deliberately instead of realizing that it has nothing to do with you and someone is just having issues.
This made a lot more sense in my head than it’s making when I look it over now. I give up.
Broad brush…
And the iconic photo of Greg Best is not from Hunterland or Eventingland - he is a Jumper rider.
but the issue the iconic pic was addressing was the jumper portion of eventing, so it’s not entirely unrelated. And truth to tell I get pretty excited when I a) see a hunter rider not dining on ears (up to and including pics of myself) and b) see an eventer rider not restricting their horse’s jump in the jumper ring. There’s a good message for both eventers and hunters (and what the heck, your average jumper rider) in that picture.
Stereotypes generally exist for a reason. There’s a grain of truth in them and that grain generally stings a tiny bit (as witnessed by the immediate reaction). That said, nobody should be judged by a stereotype, you should always wait to let the individual show you whether they want to live up to the type. 
I do think there is a certain amount of self perpetuating attitude that drives perception of friendliness or approachableness at h/j shows. When you are in a trainer/barn program, that becomes your family and it is a lot easier to not expand your horizons, so to speak - you came with a self-sustaining unit and you largely exist within those confines. On the other hand, you have your family with you all the time and not just at shows, so it’s not all bad. And if you are not in a program, you can feel like an outsider if you don’t actively try to reach out to other people because the vast majority of them arrive at the show with their “families”… but if you do make that effort, you find out people really are friendly at shows (with a smattering of assholes, just like in real life).
ewww…what a crappy post.
Of course I am an eventer, so your post about Training level riders ripping their horses faces off annoys me. So you watch one event and paint everyone with the same broad brush?
There is crappy riding in ALL disciplines, ALL OF THEM. No one is going to ride perfectly %100 of the time, it’s called practice. It’s a sport that takes years, hell, decades to perfect.
Maybe you spent too much time looking for the bad, that you missed the good.
