Hunters for Dummies

[Night_Flight]

@Spudsmyguy

I wanted to go in and do my first course when there was a lull in the action and get it over and done but oh, no, I had to wait until Susie’s trainer was there to hold her hand and I had to wait for their whole barn to go first even though no one was there.

It could be that the in-gate person was aware of a potential ring conflict that required that barn’s clients to go early in the order so that the trainer could then rush over to another ring to get another group of clients in the ring.

A good in-gate person is extremely good at juggling priorities, and none that I know would prevent a horse from going into the ring to fill a gap during a quiet period unless they knew of a very good reason why the ring needed to be left open for Trainer X’s clients to be able to go in as soon as they arrive.

[Einhorn]

I’m with you, when I hear this, it appears that Hunter riders can’t remember what they learned in warm up 20 minutes ago. I don’t see how a trainer at the gate can help if they haven’t been there watching rounds, except moral support, which I get, but holding up everyone so you have that is why Hunter shows are so bonkers.

But it’s horses for courses, and if you don’t like that style then not showing is the answer.

[CBoylen]

Well first of all, how is she going to warm up effectively? Is she going to get off after every jump and reset it? Jump an unoccupied jump randomly however it is set, whether it suits her horse’s prep or not? Jump someone else’s jump that they are using and interfere with their warmup?

[Night_Flight]

Plus if the trainer can be there to watch the client’s round, they can give feedback about what to change for the next round, and also learn what to school the horse and rider on at home before the next show.

[NancyM]

Well, those who are paying for their coach’s opinion, want the coach to be present to watch their round so that they can be “critiqued” after the fact. If the coach is at another ring watching someone else, or warming up someone else, the rider whose class is underway “can’t” go until the coach gets there. Or else they won’t get their critique. When I was coaching (long ago now), I always wanted the rider to tell ME what had gone wrong and what had gone right in the class- then we can talk about it… but I digress. If the rider doesn’t know what went right and what went wrong in their own round, one would wonder if they are ready to show at all, IMO. But then, I always expected a rider to actually become a rider in their own right at some point, not stay a “client” forever.

Yes, it’s annoying, if you are not one of those riders who needs babysitting… everyone waiting for their coach, can’t go without their coach, needing “help” and “instructions” all the time. But that’s the way the industry has gone these days, very few people “produce” themselves at the horse shows any more. And our industry is poorer as a result, IMO. An industry of dependent clients, dependent on someone else rather than learning how to do it for themselves and becoming horsemen, riders and trainers in their own right one day. Taking responsibility for learning how, then going out and doing it. Alone.

[Einhorn]

I understand that, but I replied about riders holding up for their trainer at the gate, not for warm up. I agree warm up is another issue and yes you’d want your trainer there for many reasons.

[Libby2563]

@CBoylen

Well first of all, how is she going to warm up effectively? Is she going to get off after every jump and reset it? Jump an unoccupied jump randomly however it is set, whether it suits her horse’s prep or not? Jump someone else’s jump that they are using and interfere with their warmup?

In eventing, if you are warming up without a trainer (which I am more often than not), yes, you jump the jumps as set or you ask a random trainer or bystander to change them for you. Most people are happy to help. Typically all of the jumps are already set at roughly the right height for the current class anyway. Also, the jumps are all shared and aren’t “occupied” by anyone (unless they’re being jerks maybe). Someone else jumping the same jump as me while I’m circling back around to it does not interfere with my warm-up in any way I can imagine. So, the idea of needing a trainer to claim a jump in warm-up is odd for some of us.

It’s nice to get coach warm-up and feedback at a show when possible, but the idea of an entire show schedule being arranged around that like it’s some sort of necessity is also foreign to those of us in dressage or eventing land.

[Einhorn]

That’s a valid point, I hadn’t considered. But presumably the trainer can watch most of the round and give good feed back?

[ThreeWishes]

Don’t like it don’t ride hunters . I’m sure different show venues vary but of the 3 places I’ve ridden in over the years all employ very good gate people and the trainers that frequent the shows generally have the scheduling across their various clients/rings down to a science. Yes things happen, I can only recall one or two times things ground to a halt and trust me the gate person and judge were not pleased. Like anything in life I’m sure there are extremes. There’s always the side eye to the people who show in the hunters as somehow being princess riders who need their coaches to wipe their butts and blow their noses. In MY experience that’s never been the case. And trust me I am no princess. At rated and local shows I clean my own stall, groom, prep and tack my horse. Having my coach ringside is simply to have eyes on the ground and support, so I can learn and progress after. There is nothing she can do during my search for 8 perfect jumps. Not even if she had a magic wand.

[CBoylen]

You warmup in the schooling area right before you do your trip. If the trainer is not there, the rider is not warmed up and is not ready to go in the ring.

[CBoylen]

And again, professionals do not go to the ring without a trainer on the ground. You in the tack are not always going to be aware of what is going on with the jump underneath you. You can certainly tell if you were deep or long, but you are not going to know if it’s not coming up quite even with its left front, and you need someone on the ground to see that and get you a guide rail out in the schooling area or whatever setup works for your particular horse to fix it before you go in for the next trip.

[CBoylen]

That doesn’t work for us. Each horse needs something different for it to go its best. You walk up to any hunting schooling area you are going to see a bunch of specifically set jumps. One horse might need to jump a good 4’ vertical before going in to do the 3’6”. I had one that needed to only trot square oxers, nothing else. Others have a landing rail, a one side guide rail, a huge ramp, a channel, a cooler, whatever, but in specific progression of changes in the fence until they are ready to step into the ring. It’s a science, you don’t just go jump something at the same height and call it good.

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

I love the way riders from other disciplines are always criticizing hunters. It’s like when the Ugly American visits Europe and goes around complaining because they don’t do things the same way they do back home.

The different disciplines have distinctly different cultures. Yours isn’t superior to mine, it’s just different.

[CBoylen]

I would really strongly suggest that everyone attend whatever the closest and biggest A show is for them, stand by the schooling area and watch and listen, stand by the ingate, watch and listen. You can learn a lot, and a lot of it is applicable outside the Hunter ring. If you ever have any desire to show it can help you make sense of what sounds like “chaos”, and if you don’t then maybe you get some tools you can apply to your own discipline.

[TwiSedai]

I think it’s all fascinating. I couldn’t imagine being able to take up a jump in warm up at an event to set up all of that, it’s kinda cool that you get the option to do that. I’m usually on my own so I just jumped what’s set up and either rely on friendly bystanders or hop off then hop back on if anything needs adjusting. It’s crazy how different even the warm up for different disciplines can be.

[NancyM]

I’ve always done exactly the same at the h/j shows. Not a problem at all, EVER. I can’t understand how someone could be frightened or intimidated enough to have a problem with it. It’s very strange to me that others feel this way. How sad.

[findeight]

Well…Hunters at more competitive levels are judged on small details, not just getting over and its not timed. Its the judges opinion of details, details and more details that vary depending on the questions asked by each course.

Its hard to describe to non Hunter folk but will try an example…recall doing 2 courses, same lines and single fences but starting in a different direction with a short break for critique and reset while another two riders do a course. Keep in mind I have a lovely horse but not the best or most gifted in step. Have to earn it.

First course starts with a long gallop away from the gate around the corner and down the outside line back towards and past the in gate and up the other outside line away from the gate Loooong gallop Keep in mind horse had a hack in the early AM and a serious school the day before.

So, figuring 2 minutes a trip, I am on the horse 8 trips out working on stretching horse out into a relaxing gallop so the trip to and over that first line flows and I keep it around those corners. My trainer comes in and sets a low vertical and a nice, class height and width ramped oxer. I jump the the vertical off a figure eight pattern maybe 6 times with trainer raising it each time. Then I go around the rail at good pace and jump the oxer once off each lead. 8 fences, maybe 7 or 8 minutes with trainer.

First trip in front of the judge goes well except for one corner. Come out and, instead of holding my hand, trainer points out the problem was horse stepped off the lead in back for two strides passing by the in gate after the first line, all my fault. It resulted in a little loss of impulsion, a disorganized corner and missing a bit on the in on the following line. Not only didn’t feel the step off behind that caused the corner issue but couldnt fix it quick enough, my lack of focus cost a ribbon, think I got a 78.

So, go back the the schooling ring, trainer has me do a little suppling and straightness exercise then gallop large circles past that in gate then continue with a strong ride directly to the oxer and away. Just that one fence First fence on that second course was the dreaded single oxer on the diagonal away from the in gate. Nailed it. 86. Third out of 20 something. Trainers warm up between rounds both fixed the stepping off behind problem and prepped for that first fence in about 5 minutes and one fence.

Having trainer there made a big difference in a class judged on details.

BTW, I prepped and did my hacks without assistance. No hand holding or kick in the butt needed there.

[luckycricket123]

Thanks everyone for all your insights here. I didn’t mean to kick off an inter-discipline war or throw any shade at hunter riders. I think its all different strokes for different folks! I personally love ride times too much to ever venture into the hunter show world and I think I lack the attention to detail required for turnout, but that surely doesn’t mean hunters is a lesser discipline. Just probably not the one for me. I’ve watched a couple of hunter rounds and I think they always make the course look effortless and smooth.

If anyone would indulge me with one further question, what does it mean when a horse is “a hunter type?” If anyone has a video of a finished hunter type or a horse that seems like a good hunter prospect I’d love to see a link to a video with an explanation you all could provide. I’ve never really understood what a horse that moves with “very little knee action” actually looks like.

[blondewithchrome]

John French has a good video I linked earlier!

John French Teaches What an Ideal Hunter Horse Looks Like.

Also, here is one of todays top hunters, “catch me,” scoring a perfect 100 at WEF. He has a smooth slow canter, beautiful jump, and looks like he is just so fun and easy to ride (spoiler- he’s probably not easy, and that’s the magic of hunters!) https://m.facebook.com/winterequestrianfestival/videos/scott-stewart-and-catch-me-score-of-100-in-900-high-performance-hunter-stake/2579116082397700/

[CBoylen]

Those are some good examples.
Also, everyone focuses on the hunters for these conversations for some reason, but the jumper classes happen at the same shows and run the same way as far as timing and schooling.