If she is absolutely certain her perspective and “truth” is absolute, then no amount of explaining or offering facts is going to change it. Nor should she try to pound her “truth” into your head. (and vice versa)
If you’d like to hunt, then go ahead and do it. If you’d like to hunt in the UK, France, CA, GA, VA, NY, SC, FL - go ahead and do it.
Don’t explain, don’t excuse.
(the first time we chased a coyote all I could think was - I’m going to need a faster horse. :lol:)
I agree with the previous posters.
You can never change the mind of someone so set. Out here in Calfornia the coyotes are very smart and can play the hounds for fools. One time the entire group of riders and hounds chased a long way after a coyote and then the hounds lost his scent. They all turned back to go home and there he was behind them sitting there grinning. Then he turned and just vanished.
I agree that we do not have the population of foxes here that they have in the UK. We prefer they stay here in our little town. One got hit on the highway and we all were heartbroken about it. We have red foxes here.
From my experiences we seldom get as far as a kill in the US.
But it is great fun even if it is a drag scent bag chase.
I think in the UK there has been too much emotionalisn over the entire sport.
Much like the Peta people here go nuts over little things.
When a drunk driver hit a carraige horse and the carraige here in Sacramento Old Town, all Peta had to say was “The horse should not have been there.” It is abuse to force the animal to haul around people in a carriage."
NO! It was the drunk driver who was at fault. Nit wits…
OK thats all I have to say as I will get emotional over it if I say more.
sadlmakr
[QUOTE=JSwan;4642962]
Real friends respect each others differences.
If she is absolutely certain her perspective and “truth” is absolute, then no amount of explaining or offering facts is going to change it. Nor should she try to pound her “truth” into your head. (and vice versa)
If you’d like to hunt, then go ahead and do it. If you’d like to hunt in the UK, France, CA, GA, VA, NY, SC, FL - go ahead and do it.
Don’t explain, don’t excuse.
(the first time we chased a coyote all I could think was - I’m going to need a faster horse. :lol:)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Beverley;4642106]
I’ve been with [Red Rock] when, after a couple of hours of drawing blank, you look back behind the hilltopper group, and there’s a curious coyote, following along watching the show.[/QUOTE]
:lol: I can soo see a coyote doing this.:yes:
Thanks for the information about hunted coyotes, Beverley. I confess to an affection for the crafty little things. Maybe if foxhunters find coyote good sport, then hunters will take an active role in their protection and management, the way they do with the foxes.
I’m forever talking my neighbors out of shooting coyote. I actually think they’re a good thing for us. They discourage things that are bad for our environment - like feral and free-roaming cats, which kill so many of our ground-nesting birds, and the ever-burgeoning population of garden-consuming deer. And unlike deer, coyotes seem smart enough not to play in the traffic.
I’ve heard some foxhunters say that coyote kill and out-compete foxes, though. What do you think? I seem to see as many (or more) foxes as I did before we had coyotes, but I don’t have any hard data.
Beverley, thanks for your wonderful post; that was excellent and very enlightening for this newbie.
And thanks to whomever clued me in that “Charlie” is code for fox… my horse happens to be named Charlie and I do have a COMH page; I thought maybe Equibrit did a little background check and was commenting on my cute and cuddly pony… 'scuse me while I sit here, redfaced…
My English friend loves coming to visit, but her visits always highlight MASSIVE cultural differences between her home and ours… the last time we visited my parents’ farm, we spent an afternoon target-shooting with my dad, and it was the first time she had ever HELD a gun, much less fired one… you’d have thought she was holding onto an Ebola monkey; she was absolutely scared to death.
And FWIW… she’s not the most rigid person I’ve ever met… when I first met her, she was a vegetarian for social reasons; however, over repeated visits to my family’s farm, we have corrupted her into eating (and enjoying) farm-raised chicken. So there’s hope for her yet.
I’m not overly fond of the beasts, myself- yes they did clear out the feral cats in the neighborhood, but added three of mine to the pot as well- and got a fourth but she managed to escape death (though I could have bought a pretty decent field hunter instead of paying THOSE vet bills). And they are quite adept at taking small house dogs, including terriers. Especially terriers. Coyote #1 engages the terrier who takes off in pursuit while Coyote #2 comes in from behind for the kill. And, they messed up a deer hunting day back in the late 70s near Winchester, VA, running the deer in relays.
That said, however, there is compelling data that says indiscriminate killing of coyotes does one no good- the survivors merely produce larger litters in response to smaller adult populations. I recall a study maybe 10 years ago now, possibly in Oklahoma, where only established problem coyotes were tracked and killed. The result was smaller litters and fewer problems since the ‘well behaved’ coyotes formed a stable population in terms of numbers.
I too have long heard the belief that coyote drive out fox, but my own amateur observations haven’t been consistent with that. Certainly, if there is a food shortage, coyote will outcompete fox. But where that isn’t an issue, they seem to coexist just fine. In my current neighborhood, red fox are not native but became established after a nearby golf club released a truckload of them in 1959 to take care of the gopher problem on the then-new golf course. I’m not seeing as many in recent years but the two dens within a mile or so of my house are still active. And I have observed, across the street in my neighbor’s yard, a red fox heading south on the west side of the vegetable garden simultaneous with a coyote heading north on the east side of the garden- 30 feet away- each seemingly ignoring the presence of the other.
I have hunted a few times as a guest with the Rappahanock and Bull Run Hunts. Wonderful fun! Someone told me it has been 25 years since Bull Run “accounted for quarry” (ie killed a fox). I don’t know if that’s true but on each hunt I saw at least 3 foxes and we killed none. I have never observed any particular urgency in killing the fox – if they killed it, what would they run after??
Another difference between England and the US is here in the US, you are only permitted to ride the land you have permission to ride. If the fox crosses the property line, he wins, because the hunt will not tresspass. I have seen the fox sitting on a fence post across the street “laughing” as the hounds are gathered up and hunted in a new direction.
[COLOR=“Red”]If the fox crosses the property line, he wins, because the hunt will not tresspass. I have seen the fox sitting on a fence post across the street “laughing” as the hounds are gathered up and hunted in a new direction./COLOR]
Absolutely true in UK too,there is a gentlemens agreement that the huntsman may enter to retrieve his hounds,but quite often,the farmer will not allow anyone on the property,all the huntsman can do is call them away,by using the horn,.
We have hunting here in NZ but dont have any foxes or coyotes to hunt haha, im not agaisnt hunting a pest animal, infact im for it.
Hunting here is cool, going out and clearing a 6/7 wire fence gives you such a rush. The fact that some of the wires may be barbed just gives to the thrill. Really gotta trust your horse. We will hunt hares and rabbits, but thats all we can do haha.
