<<Any hunt that wouldn’t permit a servicemember to hunt in his/her service specific uniform should be ashamed of themselves.>>
Hear, hear. Couldn’t agree more–especially considering the long history foxhunting and the military share. A hunt that would deny the uniform would, to my mind, be dishonoring a fundamental piece of foxhunting’s history, the long history of the horse as both sport and military animal, and the legions of military members who have long supported and loved the chase. Foxhunting has a shared heritage with the military and should honor it.
As far as what they’re supposed to be wearing - it’s been so long I don’t even remember the regs - but their used to be a manual a servicememember could refer to. Class A, Class B, mess dress, and I think there may have been reference or photos of mounted dress.
But it’s been a very long time so I could be wrong.
In any event - any member of the Armed Services should be welcomed with open arms whether or not they choose to hunt in their uniform of not.
I would have an easier time convincing my hubby to wear his dress uniform rather than breeches:lol: I might fall off my horse staring at him the whole time. I do admit a man in uniform making me get a bit weak in the knees and I am not that kinda girl.
We haven’t hunted yet but it’s something we both would like to try. Always interesting info on this board.
I showed hunters and jumpers in the early 1970’s in my Army uniform…wearing the correct riding boots and batwing jobs. I went on one hunt (Potomac) in my uniform and only received snarky comments from a few flaming liberals in the group.
Check with the secretary (always good manners) and go for it.
Check with the secretary (always good manners) and go for it
We have a winner! Good manners—never hurts to check.
My computer is acting funny this am—so I have had a hard time being able to find my own answers…but maybe you can tell me when you went w/PHC? Maybe the older Army uniforms lent themselves better to riding. I would think today’s current uniform would be hard to hunt in.
Also–my hubby is AF. THere is no way he could hunt in that uniform for the day. On a cold winter’s day—TOO cold—on a fast hunt—the material would not lend itself to staying in the saddle. To me:the current Army uniform would present the same issues.
Army uniforms…can you just pick any old boot to wear with your uniform? AF has clear guidelines on what shoes/boots one can wear and again–I don’t think the boots would lend themselves to safe riding.
Trak - That is one of the reasons a hunt whip is always a good idea. Some morons need a good thwacking now and then. :mad: But - it was a sign of the times, wasn’t it.
La Gringa -Evidently the AR reg your SO needs is available on-line. I searched the Internet and came up with this - but please do not take it as gospel and have your SO read the actual regulation and like others said - check with the Secretary (which we’re all supposed to do anyway)
Italics mine; here is text quoted from another BB. These folks were discussing a great many things about hunting or appearing in public in uniform; as well as service regulations in other countries armed services. So this answer kinds of addresses questions posed by other people - and not directly about hunting. But its value lies primarily in the identification of the regulation your SO will need to consult.
I’d love to see a picture!!
[I]Lets put this to rest once and for all. Yes there is an exemption to AR 670-1 approved by the Office of the Seargent Major of the Army as of 12 August 1991. It is granted on a unit by unit and individual by individual basis.Units that currently have this exemption are the Caisson Platoon 3rd Infantry, Blue Devils Horse Platoon 88th Regional Support Command, and the United states Army Reserve Equestrian Team. National Guard units that have this exemption are: Indiana, Massachutes, Conneticut, Michigan, Kentucky,and Colorado. At the last count, I saw there were over 20 individual soldiers that also have the exemtion, one to even wear white breeches with the Dress Blues and the Class “A”.
AR 670-1 1-10 allows active duty personnel to wear the uniform at ALL times if they so desire. Also, local commanders can authorize the wear and grant exemtions under the Sgt. Majors policy for special duties. Protective head gear is also authorized with the wearing of the Class “A” and Dress Blue uniforms while mounted as a piece of safety equipment. Reserve and National Guard soldiers are allowed to wear the uniform other than duty requirements under AR 670-1 29-2 at “occasions of ceremony which are essentially occasions of a military character, such as but not limited to military balls, military parades, weddings, funerals, memorial services, meetings and conferences, or functions of associations formed for military purposes of which the membership is composed largely or entirely of honorably discharged veterans of the Armed Forces or of Reserve personnel”.
Therefore,if the hunt was the hunt at Fort Levenworth or Fort Riley and the Master of Hounds authorizes the wearing of the uniform and you have the necessary exemtion from the Sgt Major’s office it WOULD BE AUTHORIZED or if the hunt was organized by the American Legion, Veterans of Foriegn Wars or the Disabled Veterans of America it would also be authorized.
As far as wearing the Class “A” uniform it is authorized under AR 670-1 14-4 to be worn " when on duty, off duty, or during travel. These uniforms are also acceptable for informal social functions after retreat, unless other uniforms are prescribed by the host." It is NOT a duty uniform! I cannot get any plainer than that!
As far as seeing a Marine in White trousers with his dress blue coat, check USMC Uniform “Yankee”. It was worn in the Queen of England’s Jubilee Celebration on horse back by two of the finest Marine Officers it has been my honor to know, Major Caryll Rice and 1st Lieutenant Jake Fernoy. And trust me it was approved by the Office of the Commandant!
AR 670-1 can be obtained on line. Also feel free to contact this unit, Blue Devils Horse Platoon, 88th RSC, Walker Army Reserve Center,3870 3 Mile Road, Grand Rapids Michigan 49544-1236 616-735-4050 ext 132. Or e-mail me at richard.dyk@us.army.mil for assistance in obtaining an exemption.
Checking with the MFH is always a good idea on something like this. If the answer were “no” then I’d either talk to the Board or find another hunt. Or maybe just “educate” the Master.
Each service would have it’s own requirements on uniforms. The Army still does have a Mounted Uniform, as do the Marines (IIRC; there is at lease one Marine mounted color guard on the West Coast). I know the Navy does not, nor does the Air Force or Coast Guard (AFAIK).
I’m a retired Naval Officer and the Regulations say that if I’m riding a motorcycle I can wear boots, chaps, helmet, and gloves. Since a horse is analogous to a motorcycle I follow those rules. So far I haven’t had any admirals tell me to quit.
The Service Dress Blue uniform is not well suited as riding attire due to it’s cut. Nor are standard tousers comfortable while astride. My wife modified a pair of trousers with a “dart” in the crotch (similar to what you see in Diamond Brand jeans) and that fixed the fit problem. They can be folded over and “bloused” with standard riding boots such that they resemble breeches. The uniform blouse is more difficult and we’re still experimenting. Right now I’ve got some loops inside that I can attach to the belt to keep the blouse from “riding up.” And I unbutton the lower button on the blouse to relieve “upward” pressure. I’m thinking of modifying it by adding a rear and two side vents. That does not appear to violate the rules.
IMO showing service pride by riding in unform is a Very Good Thing. Good on those who do it!
Well, I pm’d you on the Sandy part (but did I mention the base at Alta and Snowbird is 150+ inches these days, with another foot coming between now and Sunday?).
I enjoyed watching Col. Russell and his family compete- well, pretty much dominate- hunters and jumpers at the old Pin Oaks horse shows, as a kid in Houston.
Bosox, I’m feeling a need to clarify on my earlier post. Yes, it is universally good manners to touch base with ‘any’ hunt before going out as a guest. And the MFH of ‘any’ hunt is the final arbiter of fashion for that hunt. But I am still of the opinion that if any hunt official were so anal as to not be aware of our sport’s fundamental traditions and history, including knowing what has historically been acceptable, then that official is going to reflect poorly on our sport.
When I hunt around, what I enjoy most is seeing the ‘big picture’- a group that turns out correctly and rides well and safely, the biggest turnout item being nothing more than having self and tack and horse CLEAN- but also with guests trying out the sport in western saddles, or endurance saddles, or whatever (and related attire), to see if they like it- that, to me, is a hunt whose membership takes pride in honoring tradition without being unnecessarily hung up on the small stuff. We should welcome anybody who wants to try the sport, once they get hooked, they will get into the attire traditions, which are part of the fun (or should be!).
La Gringa- it also occurs to me that Dennis Foster, Exec Director of the MFHA, could provide some tips, as he is also a retired Lt Col (though I never saw him hunt in uniform while on active duty). I bet he’d be happy to share any nuggets of info, you could email him, dennis@mfha.com.
[QUOTE=LexInVA;3072626]
Some might take offense and others might not care. It really depends on how hardcore they are. I know some people who compete in their dress uniforms. I think it would be cool.[/QUOTE]
I think it would be entirely up to the Master. I would ask ahead of time to be sure.
I know it’s considered acceptable in the eventing arenas but I’ve only seen it a couple of times foxhunting and that was on a military base with many retirees.
I knew Dick Dyk by sight/name when I was a whippersnapper back in Michigan during the 1980s…his military backround explains that very precise posture in the saddle at the H/J shows!
[QUOTE=Badger;3073139]
These days, the officer would probably wear dress blues (not the mess one, but the one that looks like a regular jacket) and black boots. Fort Leavenworth is the only remaining military hunt, and it’s rare to see an officer in uniform, but does happen now and again. I have seen soldiers in uniform hunting at both FLH and Artillery over the years, and the color guard from Riley did hunt in uniform at an FLH opening hunt several years ago.
One problem is that I’ve never seen anyone wear a helmet with dress uniform, it’s always a service cap.
I’ve seen one guy show up in a historic cavalry uniform, more a reinactment outfit and not true military dress. That probably wouldn’t be acceptable most places.
Traditionally, proper military uniform is always acceptable (it used to be a requirement for calvalry officers to either hunt, play polo, or event). But as far as your particular hunt is concerned, there is no point in speculating, ask your MFH.[/QUOTE]
My first hunt club was the Artillery hunt at Ft Sill. I was very sad to see them close. What a loss of history to that part of the world!
Per the Fort Leavenworth Hunt fixture list, at the end of “Traditional Dress and Appointments” is the following:
"Notes:
"a. Serving military may wear uniform for formal hunts. Consult with the Masters.
“b. Serving, retired and honorably discharged members of the armed forces may wear their branch insignia and/or unit crests with formal hunting attire. The accoutrements will be centered on the right chest panel of the hunting coat.”
Trak: just for the record, I am a flaming liberal. And a big supporter of the military. It’s not the contradiction some flaming conservatives want to believe it is.
Also for the record, a military rider in uniform in the hunt field is one of the most wonderful sights around. That goes double for anyone from a British regiment that still wears the “flash.” Nothing better than that, except a kind horse and a loyal hound.
Why on earth would any hunt refuse to allow a military person to wear his/her uniform? Political correctness…??? It’s FOXHUNTING - not a pastime renowned for its pc-ness in the first place, so I think one could safely blow that red herring right out of the water.
Just thinking about the helmet thing…what if combats were allowed, then you could wear helmet, flak jacket (grenades, knife, pistol, water bottle, leatherman, kidding).
They might clash with the other riders’ outfits, though: OTOH, maybe they’d disappear altogether - they are supposed to be “camouflage”!
Back to being sensible…
What about police officers, fire fighters, etc - would they be allowed to wear their formal uniform to hunt, do you think? They’re also generally perceived as pillars of society, people that we couldn’t live without, respect greatly, rely on in times of need, etc.
For the record, I do like the idea of military personnel being welcomed if they turn up to hunt in their uniform. They might be more comfortable, however, if they found breeches in the correct uniform colour (eg navy or black - easy). Tunics could simply be tailored in a wool of suitable weight with 2% spandex, which would allow movement.
Silly Romany - that’s what the anti’s in England wear when they go hunt sabbing. They fancy themselves quite the warriors.
Pathetic. And funny. Pafunny.
I think the reason the only services with mounted uniforms is because of the cavalry - so firefighters wouldn’t have ever had such a uniform - but police and Army - yup.
He’s Army Lt Colonel. He has riding pants for his uniform. He has a full dress cavalry unform, still used by the cavalry (they still exist for ceremonial purposes) complete with cape, saber, and all regalia.
He’s very much into this. Before we met, he owned 5, count them 5 pairs of Dehner boots for riding, and never owned a horse. He loves his mare Dora and is really dreaming of hunting in uniform.
He spent the last 2 years in Kuwait, supporting our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan… logistical stuff. He’s really interested in hunting, his mare is perfect. We went during cubbing before he left for Kuwait… and he really really loved it.
He constantly tells me when it’s hunting season again, he really wants to hunt in uniform. I think it’s so awesome.
I am glad that the hunts allow it for the most part. He will be very happy to hear that.
