I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry, Profits in breeding?

[KBC]

So I came here to discuss!

I was browsing the PSSM1 group that I am a reluctant member of, when someone asked for confirmation that they shouldn’t breed their N/P1 mare…everyone confirmed that! Then she posted

No, I won’t breed her, but that means we have some hard choices to make… we were counting a certain amount on having income from her foals. she was a boarder’s horse and they’re moving far away and had wanted to just sign her over to us and let us keep her. but if I’m being perfectly honest, I don’t know if we can afford to keep her. We don’t even know if she’ll ever be sound enough to ride. and it sounds like the supplements are about to get very spendy for a backyard horse that was previously kept on just grass hay and loose mineral and salt.

Does anyone actually make income from foals? Are people still paying 10 to 15k for Gypsies? If they do, can you breed a “backyard horse” and make that money?

[furlong47]

If you’re a backyard breeder and you don’t put any of the proper care into it, sure. Toss your mare out with your buddy’s stallion. Wait a year or so, bam you have a foal. Low or no stud fee, no vet, no special feeding, sometimes an unattended foaling. Somehow, these are also the type of people where everything seems to go perfectly. They might only make a few hundred bucks, but it’s almost pure profit.

And then maybe at the very high end of things (race horses, national/international level performance/show horses) there’s some chance to make money while actually doing things right. But that doesn’t sound like the case here. If the boarders are just signing over their horse, she likely has little to no value.

Most people I know who breed do it as a hobby, for betterment of a favorite breed, or as a small side income stream on top of boarding/lessons/training/etc.

[KBC]

That was kind of my thought, if the mare was worth breeding, she probably wouldn’t be a backyard give away.

[Scribbler]

Once upon a time, and not that long ago, horses were valuable enough that even mediocre homebred or rangebred horses had a market. In our back country, ranchers were using horses for work through the 1950s. And those horses could run in a semi feral band, pasture breed, and foal unattended. And then they could be given basic training and sold off. I don’t know how the prices back then translate to modern prices but I bet a good using horse was worth something.

It’s just not like that any more. It just isn’t. And yet it’s hard for many horse owners to get their heads around the fact that while horses multiply naturally and easily, finding buyers is not that easy at the lower end of the spectrum.

[LilDunFilly]

I know of people who are still buying/selling Gypsy’s for that much and yes, some people are just doing it in their backyard. A lot of people who are breeding for profit on the lower end seem to use MLM logic. They ignore most of the money they had to invest (let alone the time) and consider the large amount they get at the end something of pure profit.

Also, depending on where you live, it’s not super expensive to breed good horses (if not great). If Person A already has a solid stud (performance-bred and showed when younger) that is just chilling in a field, it isn’t super hard to throw a few mares out there and let the chips fall were they lay. I know a small breeder who does that; they vet check each mare before/after breeding and bring the mare up near foaling, but otherwise the horses just live out in a herd. The cost of keeping the mares for breeding is minimal since they’re out on pasture for the majority of the year.

[soloudinhere]

How much do people think you can really make? I mean even if this one mare got pregnant today, you couldn’t sell the foal until it’s weaned, so that’s what, at least a year and a half from right this minute? I’m sure they were planning she was just going to continue to sit in a field and eat for 2?

So let’s say you somehow profited $10,000 off a foal. One per year ain’t gonna give you money to retire on.

[clanter]

@soloudinhere

I mean even if this one mare got pregnant today, you couldn’t sell the foal until it’s weaned,

well not really as there are embryo auctions, but as for a backyarder I really would not suspect that is an option they would target

As I have noted before the only way we ever “made” money from our horses is totally by accident

[hoopoe]

To answer the OP question , yes people are paying big bucks for GV and crosses. I have been playing along with a friend who is shopping. There are some amazing videos of high end offerings of these horses. They are, however, 3 or 4 yo, stunningly started with ground manners, driving , riding, including trails including water crossing, sometimes working cows. They are bomb proof and sturdy ranch crosses, some very flashy. Some going over 50,000

this does not sound like that kind of situation

[merrygoround]

To make a million breeding horses, start with two millions…

[rulex]

@Scribbler

And those horses could run in a semi feral band, pasture breed, and foal unattended.

Funny you should mention horses off the range as there were a few 3-4yos just recently listed in my area basically unhandled in the low to mid 4 figures. The highest priced one sold in a day. The market here is pretty hot.

[fordtraktor]

I would definitely decline the “honor” of taking on that horse, as a boarding barn owner/manager and very small time breeder! If I took ownership of every horse that needed retired…well…they all do eventually and it is the horse owner’s responsibility to support the horse.

But no, there is not much money in it. Breeding is something I enjoy doing, and, for me, to qualify for ag programs so I am exempt from paying sales tax in my state. I probably make more from that than I will the foal.

[clanter]

@merrygoround

To make a million breeding horses, start with two millions…

or use the breeding program as a front to laundry money, there have been several programs around here that turned out to being used to clean drug money up.

and then there is always Rita A. Crundwel who hid over $50,000,000 she stole in her breeding program