I don't know a lot about training horses but...

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=RhythmNCruise;7215257]
First of all let me make it clear that I don’t care for the Parellis (or any of the popular “natural horsemanship” folks), nor do I think the method in the video is very effective.
That said, the horse is completely ignoring her for the most part, and that’s the reason she is “getting loud” with her actions/cues. He gives her a fleeting second of attention when she’s really getting “loud” and then he is right back focused on his surroundings. He looks like he’s a bit bullish and his lack of regard for the human is dangerous. There has to be some recognition by the horse that you (the person) are there and in charge. In fact, the horse will be much more at ease if he can rely on a “leader” so he doesn’t have to fret. But this may be a horse with a dominant disposition, so he thinks he’s in charge and therefore must be attentive to potential dangers around him.
I had a horse that was never “present” with me. He looked past me instead of at me and it was a constant battle to get and retain his attention. He had no regard for the person handling him, and had no problem walking over, dragging, or pushing around his handler if he felt something else was more important. It’s very dangerous for horses to be like this. Usually they can be taught to accept people as leaders when they are babies, but some either don’t get that lesson or are too strong-willed to heed it.

So I understand WHY she’s getting after the horse. I’m not sure the horse has a clue though, and different methods might work better to gain his attention and respect. I imagine he was being a real buster to earn this type of lesson. Hopefully someone gets through to him.[/QUOTE]

I understand nothing about that method of training. And, if that’s your philosophy on how to gain a horse’s attention, it indicates a a lack of equestrian tact. That horse wants an escape route.

I have horses that loose in an aisle will back on command. Be assured I have never shaken a lead in their face.

[hundredacres]

I don’t think the horse is dissing her, I think he’s tuning her out because he doesn’t understand WTH she wants. He’s looking for help elsewhere. I won’t watch the video - last time I did my head hurt for hours.

[Ace1]

I agree, hundredacres. I couldn’t watch more than a couple of minutes, but I was wondering if she decided to use a well-broke horse to demonstrate her “techniques.” I didn’t even know he was missing an eye. I thought he was a total saint to put up with all the chaos she (and he) was chucking at him. I feel for the poor horse, and all the other horses who are ahem trained with these methods.

[Countrywood]

Smacking him in the face? Where?

She was TAPPING him lightly with the palm of her hand along the outer cheek of his face. He wasn’t even bothered by it. Ever see horses nip each other in the face in the paddock to chase the other away? They are far rougher than that.

I like some of what the Parellis’ do, not all of it, Linda is clumsy and abrupt in the video but at end of video horse is pretty quiet and relaxed.

Let me take a guess…all the people appalled at this video have NEVER DONE or STUDIED Parelli. How do I know that…because every person to date who bothers to post this video, has never tried it, ever, nor studied Pareli, not even for five minutes.

What really bugs me about this retread old video, is that there are so many more current and ongoing and serious issues of horse treatment and abuse that deserve attention, that go unaddressed.

[merrygoround]

COUNTRYWOOD quote “Let me take a guess…all the people appalled at this video have NEVER DONE or STUDIED Parelli. How do I know that…because every person to date who bothers to post this video, has never tried it, ever, nor studied Pareli, not even for five minutes.”-End QUOTE

Guess I’m just fussy about drinking KoolAid.

[rabicon]

Guess I’d rather ride my horse then play games.

I have seen a lot of PP on rfdtv. Believe me I was not impressed at all.

[hundredacres]

I tried Parelli. I did Level 1 when I first got back into horses about 14 years ago (it was still on cassette tapes!). It was the most useless thing I’ve ever done. Tormenting horses, waving things at the face, poke, poke, poke, constantly driving them away when asking them in your space…all of it in counter-intuitive to everything a horse understands and my horses responded 3000x better to common sense, clear signals, patience, quiet, proper timing, and fair handling. The commotion that is Parelli can drive me to have ticks. The horses always have this look like, W T F ? It’s the ones who just become dead to it that are supposedly “trained”…but they’ve just decided to tune out, but they’ve lost their souls, just like the handlers.

[Foxtrot_s]

So many good hands with horses have tried Parelli and then distanced themselves - leaving all the ‘followers’.

Parelli must have a Google alert because every time one of these threads comes up someone comes onto the board to stick up for the method.

But I’m glad that they are reading these threads, if that is the case.

[RhythmNCruise]

[QUOTE=Willesdon;7216645]
Just a passing thought: why the flapping rope and the whip and the stress when a quiet word and a hand on the chest will teach the horse the right thing in a fraction of the time? Seems like a lot of effort for a very negative result.[/QUOTE]
It would be lovely if all it ever took from us was a “quiet word and a hand on the chest” to get through to all horses. Unfortunately, in the real world where there are horses who, for whatever reason, are dangerous to handlers and themselves, and it takes a lot more than a “quiet word and a hand on the chest” to get through to those individuals. No one here knows the horse in the video or what he’s capable of. Is Linda being effective? No. She is losing her composure and desperately trying to use a method that simply does not work on THIS horse. Whether he’s a mannerly guy whose just a bit distracted or a bully with no respect, the bottom line is it doesn’t seem like an efficient way to address his behavior. And so Linda looks a bit foolish to say the least.

My point is, dont always assume horses are victims. There ARE times when we have to go “alpha” on them in a language they understand (their own) so that they are safe to handle. If seen some EXTREMELY rank unprovoked behavior from various horses that could’ve resulted in dead handlers. My best friend’s gelding (that she’d raised since birth) attacked her in a stall at a show one day and took her down to the ground. It was a VICIOUS attack meant to hurt her badly. Thank goodness we were there to intervene and pull him off of her, he grabbed her by the shoulder like a ragdoll and threw her to the ground. He would’ve continued attacking her if we hadn’t gone in with a stall rake and chased him off of her. That same horse attacked three other people. And while he’s the most dangerous horse I’ve known, there have been others, mainly stallions and a few mares that I’ve known that would hurt a person if given the chance.

This gelding in the video might be a sweet guy who is just nervous and becoming moreso thanks to Linda. I’m not judging him at all. But if someone had video-taped me moments after a 2yo paint stud grabbed my mother by her shoulder as she was leaving his stall after feeding him, they might think I’m the most ruthless b!tch in the world. On the contrary, studly needed a swift and severe lesson on why it’s a terrible idea to put teeth on a human, and he got one. I did him a favor, and because he learned that lesson his future was much more secure than that of a rude, aggressive horse that attacks people who feed him.

The Parellis are a joke though. I have no use for them.

[Pleiad]

I was too angry to watch the whole thing. I have never seen such a genuinely clueless, confused horse. Too bad he couldn’t turn that rope on the “trainer” who kept hitting him with it. I would love to know what “horse psychology” was being applied there. :mad:

[Foxtrot_s]

No comparison between LP and Barney, and a 2 y.o. paint stud that needed some manners. However, a 3 second discipline is sufficient.

Your best friend’s gelding - that she raised herself - attacked her in the stall one day — not trying to judge, but there may have been holes in his education too.

I’ve hardly ever come across a truly dangerous horse (I can think of one, and he had his excuses) - rude, maybe.

[CFFarm]

One should always set the horse up for success not for confrontation.

[RLastInstallment]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;7217029]
Smacking him in the face? Where?

She was TAPPING him lightly with the palm of her hand along the outer cheek of his face. He wasn’t even bothered by it. Ever see horses nip each other in the face in the paddock to chase the other away? They are far rougher than that.

I like some of what the Parellis’ do, not all of it, Linda is clumsy and abrupt in the video but at end of video horse is pretty quiet and relaxed.

Let me take a guess…all the people appalled at this video have NEVER DONE or STUDIED Parelli. How do I know that…because every person to date who bothers to post this video, has never tried it, ever, nor studied Pareli, not even for five minutes.

What really bugs me about this retread old video, is that there are so many more current and ongoing and serious issues of horse treatment and abuse that deserve attention, that go unaddressed.[/QUOTE]

I DO have experience with Parelli’s methods, and I’m still appalled by this video, and other videos/statements that have come out.

I used PP’s methods on about 40 horses that came through the local university over a number of years. Of those appx 40 horses, only one came to us having previous PP experience, and he was a nut job. Flighty, wouldn’t be caught, didn’t trust people (which has been my experience with literally every PP-trained horse I’ve worked with). I can’t tell you how many hours I spent just standing at the other end of a line with that horse. The same horse was used in a demo by a local PP follower (2/3 star, I don’t recall), and didn’t understand when the trainer was asking him to back. Trainer asked, asked again, and then walloped him on the face right between the eyes.

So maybe the methods themselves aren’t bad, but advertising them as cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all, any beginner can do it, is a mistake… those methods are like a razor in the hands of a monkey.

And if there are other issues which bother you, why not start a thread and raise some awareness? They don’t have to go un-addressed.

[Countrywood]

I can believe a horse trained using a bad version of PP methods could be a nut job. Sadly, I have also met many nut job horses that never had PP training. And PP training is supposed to help troubled horses, when done correctly…since you used the methods for 40 horses, what did you think fo them?

I like the P methods for a limited use as groundwork…if done correctly of course. I am not a Parelli nut and have no time for the whole program and think some of what hey do it gimmicky and repetitive. .

[Freebird]

Here are the Parellis response to the outcry from that video: http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXpDYs2EaBq4&h=5AQFKfSZT&s=1

[CFFarm]

What a load of crap…We just don’t understand…yeah, right. Outta here.

[ACMEeventing]

Oh my gosh. She did such an incredible job changing that horse that now he’s teaching other horses.

I guess I’ll always be a mere mortal :sigh:

[Countrywood]

I just am curious why this same video keeps popping up, on a dressage section …are the same few people regularly dredging it up?. On the former Ultimate dressage forum this video was trotted out like clockwork every few months with the same “I am appalled at this” introduction.

I have, as I said, a limited support of P…their methods work to solve problems in a number of horses but it can be crude in the wrong hands. And yes, Linda is annoying as heck and imo a clumsy practitioner of the system.

However, the majority of horses whose owners seriously follow Parelli are not horses that dressage riders are even interested in. What dressage rider critiquing this video would take this particular part blind horse on, for example? Many owners of rescue or unsound or avg horses do Parelli with them , so what? Where else are these horses supposed to go and how many homes for them are out there? Most of these horses have good homes and are well loved, so they have a rope waved in their faces. Their owners think spurring and whipping in the name of dressage is worse (from their point of view).

Keep it in perspective, I suppose is my message.

[Crockpot]

There are lots of one eyed horses doing well without being clunked upside the head by the likes of LP.

Natural training?:lol: Focusing on the head- wiggle wiggle CLUNK and laugh- which is what she does- shows her lack of understanding of the nature of the horse. She’s focusing on the wrong end of the horse but that’s what the parellis do with the stupid games that have nothing to do with the nature of the horse.