A little product named Ivermectin was more responsible for increasing equine longevity, along with some better vaccines, than all the dietary additives in the world.
We have also had increases in diagnostic and Rx treatment. Treatment specific to the need.
Why do you say that??
See that is my way of thinking.
How do you know if / where your horse might be lacking? Doesnât your soil ( pasture & hay) and water ( well water) add minerals unique to your situation?
Is there not the chance that you could be adding too much of certain minerals if you just blindly supplement ?
Indeed.
You have to have a plan. And more of a plan than just generic âdietary optimizationâ as that will vary from animal to animal, use to use, location to location, etc. If youâre trying to win the Triple Crown then youâll have a much different set of ideas about âoptimizationâ that somebody trying to keep a âweekend warriorâ healthy and sound.
G.
I am, yes 
Your previous comment made it sound like âif the horse seems fine, donât mess with itâ, and Iâm only saying that thereâs more to it than what you see in front of you.
I wasnât begging the question - I was laying out the 2 options:
1 - be reactive in fixing what breaks
2 - be proactive in avoiding breaks
Those 2 are very black and white. But #2 is not a black and white âdo or donât supplementâ, because with most things, it depends
Its only been about the past 20-30 years that vets have started actually really looking deep into lameness. If a horse was a bucker under saddle, and it wasnât obviously lame, it was sent to a problem trainer to get it âworked outâ and if that didnât work, it became dog (or hound, depending on if your local hunt wanted them) food. Now we know about custom saddle fit, kissing spines, all the crazy injections you can do, IRAP, ultrasound therapy, etc.
If the horse wasnât 3 legged lame, it usually was just ridden. And if it couldnât be⊠well some got good retirements. Most didnât.
You win for the most ridiculous statement of the day. I recall tagging along with vets at the racetrack 40 years ago, and 90% of what they did was lameness evals.
It is simple for most horses. Forage based (MUST BE THE BEST
QUALITY HAY AND PASTURE AVAILABLE) and the ability to graze and most important to me, simply being able to MOVE. Wandering as they graze. As Guilherme above says you canât wait until things start to fall apart. If your horse shows a deficiency in something then supplemental (grain, minerals, vitamins or even pre or pro biotics) may need to be added. The health of the feet, coat and general appearance will tell you much. Conditioning racehorses is another thing altogether as they lead a very âunhorseyâ life. We donât all have perfect situations and have to do the very best we can, not only whatâs easy. JMHO
I didnât say they didnât do lameness exams? That would be ridiculous! Just that, for the average vet if the horse wasnât obviously lame that was that. Iâve seen my fair share of horses who werenât lame but had pain somewhere. Today we think saddle fit, subtle lameness, ulcers, etc before we go to âhorse needs an attitude checkâ
You do LOVE the black and white, eh?!?!?!
I donât think Iâve ever said, âdo not supplement.â Iâve said, âdo not supplement unless there is a sound reason for doing so.â Hence my suggestion of the SOAP analysis. Iâve also said that few supplements have ANY science behind them and the laws that govern them donât even require that they contain whatâs listing on the label. Nor do they need to disclose accurately what is!!!* So you almost have to do a double SOAP, once for the horse and once to the bottle.
Avoiding âbreaksâ is a wonderful idea. But there are few âavoidanceâ things that come in a jar. Mostly of the time itâs good farriery, good exercise practices, good rider skills, and properly fitting tack. Not a one of those comes in a jar!!!
So do the SOAP analysis BEFORE you hit the feed store, not while youâre standing in front of the supplement shelf reading anecdotes and puffery.
G.
*There may be some movement in this area, as Iâve read that FDA has been trying figure âwork aroundsâ to the present âhands offâ regulatory regime in this area. Time will tell if they can and if they can will USDA do the same with areas under their jurisdiction.
Agree - itâs called the art of horsemanship.
I guess some people are just not able to assess the condition of a horse.
You may, but I fixing behavior problems with training. Then again, I make sure the saddle fits, the horse is healthy etc before I ride.
That is exactly what I learned from an excellent life -long horseman, who owned the stable I boarded at long, long ago. I will also add âgood feedingâ to your list above which came in the form of excellent quality hay ( of various varieties).
Our vets always took lameness seriously and while the techniques were more primitive 40 years ago, they did a good job at evaluating and treating lameness issues. It might have been different in your particular region.
Iâve gotta say, Iâve struggled with the whole supplementation thing. I have a few friends (and farrier who likes pushing things like that) that are adamant that the supplements they use are the only reason their horses are sound, and they are all really expensive stuff. I was sort of pressured (âstrongly encouragedâ) to put my young horse on all of that stuff too. Special hoof supplement, special all around supplement with joint stuff, plus another bone supplement (my 4 year old has fusing hocks, not the least bit unsound or stiff from it though even before all the supplements), plus other obscure things. I ended up putting him on those things just to get them off my back, eventually moved barns for reasons not related, and told the new BM to just use them until they ran out because I never saw any real difference and finally didnât have them up my butt anymore. I think a lot of times with the supplements people are looking for them to be working so if a horseâs coat looks shinier to them, or seems to be moving better, it has to be because of the supplement.
Note: my 4 year old has been off all of those supplements for about a month now, including the joint and bone ones that my friends insisted he needed, and I finally trotted him under saddle this past weekend (Iâve been hesitant to do much despite the vet saying to stop worrying about his hocks and just ride him, he is fine). And he felt GREAT. He looks GREAT from the ground too. So Iâve come to the conclusion that the $200/month supplements were making VERY little difference for the cost. Now, if he starts coming up stiff again, Iâll reevaluate. But I think people tend to oversupplement, and then get kind of offended if you donât automatically believe that Special Magic Formula is the best thing ever and every horse needs to be on it regardless of what they are doing, and if you arenât on it you are a horrible owner. I understand completely that they truly believe their horses needed it, and that mine must need it too and therefore pushing me to use it was only them trying to help me. And it was my own fault for just getting it so as not to deal with the drama from it since I couldnât move him anywhere at that point in time. But I honestly would love to take on their horsesâ care and see how they faired without all those supplements. In a real, objective way.
âŠturned into a bit of a rant, sorry. I think supplements have their place, but again, I think they get over used.
Agree. And then they want to supplement shame you for not spending $200 a month on that wasteful stuff. Because even though your horse looks great, feels great, and performs great, you are somehow not doing right by your horse if the spreadsheet says so, and heâs a ticking time bomb that will âbreakâ at some point in the future. :rolleyes:
Right now I have a teenager and a soon-to-be teenager who have won more coolers, chairs, medals, tin stuff, belt buckles, trophies etc than I know what to do with. And they are both still going strong and winning, despite my lack of spreadsheeting. Wonder when my luck will run out. Itâs been holding pretty steady for a few decades, simply relying on common sense, education, and horsemanship.
Perhaps the supplement actually worked, since heâs doing so great?
Thing is, you canât know what you donât know⊠in this case what would the progress been like without the supplements you were strong armed into forking over $$ to use. It sounds like because you were worried, youâve not really seen him move much, so canât really attest to whether the progress to âgreatâ didnât occur over the time you were using those supplements, even.
We all make decisions on what to do, and when to do them based on the best info we can get, and often a bit of gut⊠ok those of us who donât bow to peer pressure.
When trying something, itâs best to do things piecemeal, while doing periodic checks on progress ⊠so when you see improvement, the cause of that improvement is identifiable.
Throwing everything and the kitchen sink at something, and then deciding each thing wasnât worth it because you didnât get the result you wanted (though in your case, you actually did. ???) really isnât the way to decide on each of those supplements, yea or nay.
imho of course
Iâve always found that consistent basics cause progress. I donât want so many pieces that I donât know what piece is doing what.
Exactly. Adding things on, then allowing their use and time to show observable improvements is important.
Same with any interventions utilized, whether they are PT/physio exercises, nutritional, supplements or Medicinals, or veterinary procedures (including chiropractic, massage and acupuncture). Simply adding them and or then removing them, without time for them to work and observation of measurable and subjective âmeasuresâ over time is really not sound process.
I donât think feeding is complicated, but I also think there is a lot more information available now than before. Research is more readily available due to the internet. Learning about nutrition 20-30 years ago usually meant having someone (vet/trainer/friend/mentor) explain the details.
I do think people over supplement in the sense of putting their horse on something because of a recommendation rather than analyzing what the horse is getting nutrition wise and supplementing (if necessary) based on region and what the owner is able to get for their horse in terms of hay type and concentrates.
As far as lameness vs. behavioral, I think that is always dependent on who one learns from. People who think everything is behavioral or every saddle can be made to fit a horse still exist. There were also people 30+ years ago that I learned from who did looked first for pain and saddle fit rather than behavioral.
The longer I taught nutrition, the simpler my horsesâ diets got.
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