I don't understand "retirement" farms...

[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;4389477]
What I guess I don’t understand is how people can let their oldies go so far away that they’re not seeing them regularly and such. I’ve seen the “bad” stories here…and the good too. I know it can go either way. But from a “horse person” standpoint, I’m not sure that I personally could ever retire my horse to a place that was say…several hours or states away.

That is the part that has me scratching my head a bit.[/QUOTE]

Tell the truth, that would also bother me. Fortunately I found a retirement facility close enough to home that I can go see my guy whenever I like. It doesn’t have amenities like a riding ring or even a tack room since the boarders, for the most part, don’t ride. They do take great care of the old guys, make all the regular farrier and vet appointments and hold the horses for those, have everyone on the same worming rotation, don’t charge extra for blanketing, etc. The oldest of the old get a stall in foul weather, otherwise there are several large run-in sheds in each pasture so that even the lowest guy on the totem pole can find shelter if he needs it.

[QUOTE=EqTrainer;4389555]
The reason some people send their horses too far away for them to see them all the time is that they are doing what is best for the horse - not for themselves :wink: The horses who are retired here could care less if they ever see their owners again. They have a herd partner and fantastic care. All of their needs - as a horse are satisfied and so there is no longing for a person to show up and gratify them in some way.

Thinking that the horse will be miserable if it never sees its owner again is just wishful, Black Beauty thinking. Yes, they perk up when they see a person, they might be bringing dinner :lol: but are they out there dreaming that their owner might show up? Not likely.

People project a lot of things on their horses and this is one of them.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. We do our horses no favors by imagining they have human characteristics. I sent my horse away because it was a better life for him not for me. Isn’t that what responsible horse ownership is all about?

I could never dump one of my horses with someone else, then never see them except what, once a month? Once a year? Even once a week is not acceptable to me. :confused: Over my dead body. When horses are old and frail, that’s when they need you the MOST. You are their owner - the person who knows them intimately, every creak, every squeak, every time their eyes just look tired or stressed - I’m going to know it more than anybody else. I notice every tiny little detail about my herd that nobody else would even give a second glance.

Owning a horse is for LIFE. Unless I am physically incapable of caring for them properly, they will be on this farm until they take their last breath.

Total bullshit if you think a horse doesn’t care if it never sees the owner again. :eek: Wow, the thought that a “horse trainer” would post this is really disturbing.

My main riding mare CALLS for me when she sees me. When I leave my friend holding her so I can go use the porta potty at a trail head, she doesn’t care about the friend - just stares in the direction I went until I come back. She won’t eat while I’m gone. My stallion calls and runs in from the pasture every time he sees me - regardless of time or day, food or no food. My husband can go out there, and he just keeps grazing. Horses definitely bond tight to their owners, and they DO know who you are and feel comfortable with you.

Ocassionally I let someobdy else ride Sweets - either to just try her out, to feel her gaits or whatever. I can see the worry in her face, and she constantly looks for me. She listens to the rider on her back, but she wants to know where I am. When she comes back to me, and they get off, she literally sighs and licks her lips. Her and I have spent hundreds and hundreds of miles and hours together bonding, training, and riding the trails.

You’re nuts if you think that horses don’t recognize their owner as part of their herd. Or you just haven’t spent enough miles and hours with your horse bonding.

Have you ever sold a horse, and then bought it back years later? I did, and let me tell you what, that mare KNEW us as soon as she heard our voices. My mother and I started talking to her, and her ears perked right up, and her face looked so surprised. When we got her home, she started calling for her old granny horse that had raised her. They got together, rubbed noses all over each other, and were inseprable from that first minute. She had NO interest at ALL in the other horses that she did not know. She wanted that granny that has raised her, and she wanted us - and she’d been away from this farm for 6 years.

My mother led her out of the trailer and down the barn aisle, and she literally took a sharp right, and ducked RIGHT into the stall that had always been hers. She pulled the rope through mom’s hand and went right in her stall. Why didn’t she just keep walking down the aisle, or go in a different stall? It was like nothing had ever changed.

It breaks my heart to see that people have never developed a real relationship with their horse. The horse is just a vehicle, a source of income and intertainment. :frowning:

I was sitting on the lawn reading on a nice summer day, and Sweets came to the fence as close as she could get, and she laid down and took a nap. And you think that horse doesn’t know who I am? Isn’t bonded? Why wasn’t she out in the field with her buddies who were grazing. She wanted to lay down, and she felt comfortable laying down by me. I sat there for as long as she slept.

It’s really sad to know that people cannot recognize or accept the love of an equine. Wow, the herd dynamic and bond is so strong and powerful, it’s what has kept horses alive for eons, and I am eternally grateful that my horses recognize, respect, and accept me as one of “theirs.”

I could NEVER ever turn my back on any of my horses in their waning years. To think that something happened to them, or that I wasn’t there when I needed them? I can’t even type it without getting choked up. I don’t just own horses so I can “ride them.” Riding is a perk, an extra. I own horses because there’s nothing that makes me happier than looking out the window and seeing them snoozing in the sun or taking a rip around the back pasture. I own them because they give and give and give without any hope of getting back. They are so forgiving and so loyal. The thought of “sending them away” when they can’t be ridden is just awful, as far as I’m concerned.

I guess what you guys do is your choice, but it’s not something I’d do if I could help it.

When I say “I don’t think I could leave my horse with someone and not see him” I don’t mean from an emotional standpoint…I mean it from a care standpoint…monitoring health, “knowing” the horse well enough to see if there are issues popping up, making sure feet are good, weight is good, etc.

Perhaps it is due to my experiences with boarding around here–but I’ve only been at one place where I felt like I could be gone for a few days and not have to worry about the horses. Everywhere else, I’ve seen the condition that horses seem to get into when the BO knows the owner isn’t coming out regularly.

In fact, yes…I think that is ultimately my largest issue.

I of course would love to have my horses nearby…but if I thought that a horse needed to go to another climate to be happier, or needed a different environment to have a good quality of life, that would certainly be reason to do it. But I have just heard too many horror stories of horses getting turned out to retire only to be found months later injured and emaciated.

I could never dump one of my horses with someone else…

Auventura Two, your characterization of this choice is quite irresponsible and insulting. It’s hardly ‘dumping’ when one is likely still paying a few hundred dollars a month. I strongly urge you to reconsider your choice of words here. I don’t think you quite know what you are talking about.

A2 you are awfully easily disturbed.

If one of your older horse would greatly enjoy the benefits of a warmer, drier environment- would you consider providing it?

When JJ quit sweating 4 years ago here in Alabama, I set out to do right by him. Tried a variety of remedies, managed him to the best of my ability, but kept an eye out for a northern home I could trust. Found it in a gal I’ve own for many years. That good sweet horse now lives in Ohio, barefoot and fancy free, loved and ridden by her husband of nearly 20 years who ONLY showed interest in the horses once he met JJ. She just thought she was getting herself a horse, but JJ stole her husband’s heart. He’ll never have to endure Alabama heat again, he’s loved and cherished by- gasp-someone other than the couple that owned him the last 10 years. I did it FOR that horse.

When Jake - the horse I’ve got out on loan-colicked back in 1996, I fought my vet tooth and nail for a referral to AU, and signed the paperwork at 2AM to put him down if the belly tap said he was a surgical case. Why? Because HIS personality would struggle with the rehab, HIS fretful, pushy nature would make him a great candidate for trouble during the recovery and possible future reoccurence. I signed his life away only 6 months into owning him- FOR HIS SAKE. He’s a fighter, he survived, and nary a touch of colic ever again, now 12 years later. When Jake tried to lose an eye last winter, and I was suffering from Bells Palsy at the same time, I faithfully doctored him 3-4 times a day, loved and cried over him and prayed for that eye. For HIM. For HIS comfort… And no, for THAT horse- that horse who would die trying to please his rider, ANY rider- he’s not the sort that will lie down next to a lawn chair and snooze. He LOVES his food, carried by anyone, more than anything. Good for you that Sweets is that horse that peers after you and frets. That’s a very sweet story. But I know Jake isn’t that sort of horse. he ‘likes’ me, he trusts me, but we’re special to each other? Meh, I think with him that’s a bit of a stretch. I cried most of the drive home from dropping him off, and he’s just on lease, 30 minutes away, LOL- he’s mine but not in my yard, and I’m such a heartless devil I cried over leaving him. LOL For you to label them all the same with the same personality…now who’s lacking clarity in their vision, really? Who doesn’t know horses as individuals?

"BuddyRoo

I don’t understand “retirement” farms…
I’m not in a position to need this right now, so this is purely a knowledge seeking endeavor…

I don’t get “retirement farms”."

Well first of all often areas that are high in jobs for people also have high boards and cost of living. Horses enjoy retirement in big spaces and often near city centers in OUR area there is not the pasture space. Secondly THE NICE THING if you would have thought twice about it is that these retirement facilities are geared towards the care of the OLDER or retired horse. Often meaning they carry all types of low sugars or special foods, special trained staff for older horse needs and MOST IMPORTANTLY they pair these older horses with other lame or aged horses. WHAT kind of retirement is it for a older lame horse to have some sort of baby or younger horse trying to run him in circles? I see it all the time and sorry while some say it keeps the geriatric horse young which may be true is come cases I also see some older horses run off their feet by younger counterparts so owner can keep “BUFFY” close to their heart and home sheeeesh I would rather my horse be happy. The money element does fit in as well. Pastures (not many retirements local here) are $300-$500 here and often $175- and up outside out busy metroplex. Also retirment is NOT DUMPING. I pay for both my retired horses to have grain, supplements, wormer, dental, vet care, hoof care on 20 acres and they get fly sprayed not to mention a pond to stand in for the heel flies in summer and yea it’s 2 plus hours away but their happiness was more important that them being in a dry run locally where I could see their misery everyday. The farm has a couple llama and goats and they are so cute out there together. I see them both 1 time per month and my family lives there so you know what I see how happy they are… It is possible for these show horses to enjoy the let down and craziness around show barns. They settle and love it and love having older horses to nuzzle and wither groom through afternoons.

AT: YOU scare me a bit. I am not sure if it is your total disrespect for people doing what they feel is right for their horses or the crazy zeal in your post (which you probably feel is passion but really it is rudeness, and a little melodramatic as in the comment over your dead body? Really hop hop off the soap box please) Not everyone owns farms and most people that do would keep them there. Maybe read your own post again! HC WTH

"Auventera Two

I could never dump one of my horses with someone else, then never see them except what, once a month? Once a year? Even once a week is not acceptable to me. Over my dead body. When horses are old and frail, that’s when they need you the MOST. You are their owner - the person who knows them intimately, every creak, every squeak, every time their eyes just look tired or stressed - I’m going to know it more than anybody else. I notice every tiny little detail about my herd that nobody else would even give a second glance.

Owning a horse is for LIFE. Unless I am physically incapable of caring for them properly, they will be on this farm until they take their last breath.

Total bullshit if you think a horse doesn’t care if it never sees the owner again. Wow, the thought that a “horse trainer” would post this is really disturbing."

I boarded at a farm with at least 2-3 older horses who never got visitors, and they seemed very content, well loved and well cared. Each was groomed regularly, received good vet and hoof care, had a nice pasture and stall and flourished. I have a hard time condemning the owners. They paid the bills as far as I know.

I think boarding your horses perhaps makes them less attached to you as their human. My horse is as happy to see the feed guy as she is to see me, perhaps more so. Perhaps we don’t have a strong bond- or perhaps I just have a horse that likes many people.

I look at my horse- she settles into a new barn quickly and without stress. She does not seem to miss old turn out buddies and seems to adapt to new ones quickly. I don’t see why if she had a new caretaker that treated her with the same kindness and level of attention that she would be less happy or have a need to see me. I imagine some horses do develop closer bonds.

To be certain, mailing a check every month with no accountability can be a disaster, but I have known several people I’d leave my horse with for years and not worry about her.

I own horses because there’s nothing that makes me happier than looking out the window and seeing them snoozing in the sun or taking a rip around the back pasture. I own them because they give and give and give without any hope of getting back. They are so forgiving and so loyal. The thought of “sending them away” when they can’t be ridden is just awful, as far as I’m concerned.

Not everyone is privileged enough to be in a position to own land suitable for horses. So we do our best to find boarding situations with quality care. Yeah, I wish I had a farm and my horse could be there all the time, but I don’t. So she gets to live on a wonderful farm with wonderful staff and other horses. I don’t think she feels her life is … lacking.

I could never dump one of my horses with someone else, then never see them except what, once a month? Once a year? Even once a week is not acceptable to me. Over my dead body. When horses are old and frail, that’s when they need you the MOST. You are their owner - the person who knows them intimately, every creak, every squeak, every time their eyes just look tired or stressed - I’m going to know it more than anybody else. I notice every tiny little detail about my herd that nobody else would even give a second glance.

You are the steward of their well being. If their well-being is not the same as your well-being, you need to make sure that their well-being is looked after. That is what, as a horse owner, you are responsible for. If you pay the bills and check on them once a month, once a week, whatever – and they’re happy and flourishing – that’s the important part. If they aren’t, you need to fix that.

Owning a horse is for LIFE. Unless I am physically incapable of caring for them properly, they will be on this farm until they take their last breath.

Are you LESS of a horse owner if they don’t live on YOUR farm and you board them? Because, I don’t see how you own them any LESS paying retirement board. You’re still the steward of their well-being and responsible for that.

My main riding mare CALLS for me when she sees me. When I leave my friend holding her so I can go use the porta potty at a trail head, she doesn’t care about the friend - just stares in the direction I went until I come back. She won’t eat while I’m gone. My stallion calls and runs in from the pasture every time he sees me - regardless of time or day, food or no food. My husband can go out there, and he just keeps grazing. Horses definitely bond tight to their owners, and they DO know who you are and feel comfortable with you.

Or, maybe they just know that SOMETIMES you have food. And sometimes you’ll feed them. And it’s better to come running to you to check it out than not. Anthropomorphizing, much?

It breaks my heart to see that people have never developed a real relationship with their horse. The horse is just a vehicle, a source of income and intertainment.

That may well be or not be – and that’s not your problem. As long as the horses are happy, healthy, and well-cared for, YOU don’t get a dog in that fight. They can use them for whatever they want, “relate” or “not relate.”

It’s really sad to know that people cannot recognize or accept the love of an equine. Wow, the herd dynamic and bond is so strong and powerful, it’s what has kept horses alive for eons, and I am eternally grateful that my horses recognize, respect, and accept me as one of “theirs.”

Or you’re watching too much Black Beauty.

I feel perfectly well-bonded with my horse, but I’m not stupid enough to think that I’m the only one that can provide him with good care and a good quality of life.

The thought of “sending them away” when they can’t be ridden is just awful, as far as I’m concerned.

The majority of those “sending them away” are sending them to BETTER facilities for the animal. Somewhere with nicer huge fields for them to run around in, not something expensive and close in to a city. It’s not like they’re “sending them away” to DIE ALONE IN TERROR. Yeesh. To suggest that is highly insulting.

I could name a few folks that I’d happily send a horse to for retirement. We’ve been fortunate to keep our non-rideable horses with us – and I’d never “send a horse off” to a fate that I didn’t at least keep an eye on. But to board it at a quality facility with quality care, sorry, I just don’t see that as being such a terrible, horrible, awful thing.

Horses defnitely do recognize you. Mine is neighing for me even before I get out of my truck-she knows the sound of the truck. I only trail ride and she loves to trail ride. Never have to worry about catching in a pasture and I don’t feed goodies until after the ride.

That being said, I also love travel. I have taken trips for a couple of months and she is just fine. I also have moved heavily and after about a a day to a week, she is fine. We enjoy each others company-but I think both can do just fine without the other. Horses are adaptable and honestly if they are turned out in a herd of compatible horses with adequate feed and water-what else can they ask for. Right now I am moving out of my corporate job and switching to my business full time. So I have parked my horse in Los Angeles and I am up in N.cal to finish up with my job and will go back in a few months. The mare is in a 5 acre hilly pasture lording it over a couple of geldings . She is happy as a clam! The BO is very good and calls me up for anything. I am not worried. The ranch is a bit out there-so she does have a few absentee owners. She takes very good care, checking them for scrapes, moving the horses around if they are not compatible, feeding them well. So I really have nothing to worry about.

Stuff happens in life, wether it is temporary or permanent. For those of us without land, this works out best. Nothing is permanent -many times while boarding, I have come across owners who have passed on before their horses. Stuff happens. Some retirement homes are real nice, they send you photos, email updates, feed carrots and treats,groom-it is not a bad deal-considering what some folks do to their horses if no longer needed(auction).

I’m not sure my retiree boarder can draw the distinction between ownership and sympathetic care. Every time I go in his stall he’s all over me and I return his favours. His owner is not here so often - but I don’t think the old guy suffers for that. He lives with his best friend of 11 years who is truly the most important being in his life. I think sometimes we tend to inflate our importance to our animals to feed our needy egos.

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[QUOTE=Equibrit;4390042]
I’m not sure my retiree boarder can draw the distinction between ownership and sympathetic care. Every time I go in his stall he’s all over me and I return his favours. His owner is not here so often - but I don’t think the old guy suffers for that.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. If the care is great, then the care is great and that’s what counts to me. I guess I just generally envisioned most RF’s to be pasture board leaving the horses to their own devices–because that’s what I’ve seen in the past. And I don’t think those horses were necessarily getting very good care or even being monitored appropriately.

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I think that’s more of a condemnation of absentee owners and shoddy barns, then, not just retirement barns.

You may see it more frequently with “retirement” barns but really, shoddy care can happen in ANY full service facility. It’s up to the owner, then, to be a proper steward of the animal’s well being.

I think it depends on the horse, as to how much they “grieve” when their person is not around. I could never, and God-willing will never, send King away from me. He frets himself almost to illness when I am not around. He frets when I am doing things he thinks are un-safe. He just frets over me, that’s just how the old codger is. Sometimes someone will try to tease me that King would choose someone or something else over being with me, and I just smile. I know the old guy. There is one thing in this world that King loves, and she has a name. :slight_smile:

Elijah’s former owner sent him here to live with us because she believed it would be a better life for him. And I think she was right, I think this is a better life for him. But Elijah grieved terribly. His heart was broken over it, and I think a small part of his heart will always be broken. I don’t think his former owner fully realized how bonded Eli was to her. He was truly despondent and aloof for a good six months. He is more bonded to King than he is to me, and I am the only person he is bonded to now. He loffs me, but I don’t know if I will be “his person” the way she was. He grieved, and it was very clear, and very sad to see. God-willing, I will never send him away, either. I know it would break his heart.

Chester, on the other hand? He was never really bonded to his former owners. He was confused for awhile when he got here, but he is happy as a clam to be here, and he loffs everyone. A totally diffferent personality.

I agree, however, that owners who choose a retirement farm for their horses are among the top-notch of horse owners – above those who just chuck them out into a field, send them to auction, or give them away and tell themselves happy stories. And, retirement care, done well, is a lot of work. I guess I sort of fell into having a “retirement farm” here at King’s Ransom, it wasn’t my intent, but here ya go. And yes, during the winter especially, it is feeding twice daily, blankets on / blankets off, special feed, special meds, special care. I, too, love the old guys.

A2 - the fact that I am a horse trainer is what has given me the experience to know that your horse doesn’t miss you when you are gone. I have had countless horses dropped off with me - for training, for boarding, for retirement. As long as their physical and emotional needs are being met there is a very short adjustment period and then they are happy as clams. Sorry to bust your bubble but just because your horse “calls to you” when she sees your truck does not mean that if you dropped her off here she’d spend the rest of her life looking for your truck. Nope, she’d start calling to mine!

So I guess if you went broke and lost your farm you’d do what? Euthanize them all?

It’s a very common amateur concept to think that you are the center of your horses emotional world. Give them an appropriate companion and whatever else they need and that other horse quickly becomes their herd.

I love my personal horses, too, but I have no illusions about there being no other person in the world who could take good care of them and ensure their well-being and happiness.

I do have a question - what do you mean, your horse doesn’t eat if you aren’t there? Do you stand in the field w/her all day? All night? In the stall? Do you ever go away, like, for a weekend or on vacation for a week?

[QUOTE=EqTrainer;4390071]

It’s a very common amateur concept to think that you are the center of your horses emotional world. [/QUOTE]

It might be an amateur concept, but I have seen enough proffesionals who are on the other extreme to whom it is just a job. As with most a middle ground is best.

Agree with EqTrainer and also I find as the BO I know the horses much better than their owners, as I see them twice a day and clean their stalls and feed them and the owner sees them 3-4 / week. Living on the farm and spending so much time there, I can tell when a horse isn’t “right” and start addressing the issue much sooner than the owner can.

I am NOT a retirement farm. I am a pony breeding farm, BUT i have had some retirement horses and ponies come to me. I have one, who was a well known show pony. She is out with others and her needs are met and have been for over 10 years (maybe 12). Her owner has been here to see her, maybe 3 times, during the years. I get an email, maybe once a year to see how she is doing. These are nice people and they trust me. Often, during the year, trainers come and immediately recognize “…”, and comment how well she looks for her very advanced age.

I dont think badly about her owners. They know, if things change with her, health wise I will call. But, as I have told them, at her age things can happen very quickly. She is happy as a clam and has her trusty group as her eyes fail her and her hearing is pretty bad. She still takes first bucket!! I would not move her, nor her friends from her.

So, I guess everyone does things differently. It doesnt make one better than another one to pay more or less attention to their animals. The best thing they can do is to make sure they are at a facility that has stability and a good reputation. I have more than enough love to go around for everyone.

If there was a retirement option with big grass pastures and excellent care around the corner from me, that’s where my horse would be. However, the closest option was a few hours away in a pretty remote area, so that’s where he is. I haven’t seen him in more than a year, but I get regular updates including photos. And of course, I have absolute trust in his caretakers, who happen to be my SO’s family :wink:

There is no doubt in my mind that this is the best situation for my horse: if he were here with me, he’d live in a stall, have limited dry lot turnout, no grazing, limited interaction with other horses and the stress of living in a show barn with lots of activity. At the retirement farm, in the summer, he is on acres and acres of green pasture with lots of buddies. In the winter, he gets top quality grain and hay and lives in a smaller space with a nice shelter, but there is still room to run, play and socialize. And I can honestly say, I don’t think the horse misses me at all! :lol:

Conversely, I own three other retirees living on my farm, because this is the best situation for those horses. One is forty years old and toothless so pasture is not an option. Another is 31 and Cushingoid - again, no pasture. And the third was retired due to neurologic issues, and I don’t feel safe putting him out with a herd. Although these horses are well cared for and happy here, I wish more than anything that I could give them the gift of just “being horses” for the remainder of their lives, meaning turnout on grass with a herd of buddies, but unfortunately their bodies aren’t equipped to handle that lifestyle.

For me, it all comes down to what is best for the horse, and I am confident that I have made the right choices for mine.

I wasn’t being insulting. A2 made a point to say that because I am a trainer (a professional) that I should know better. I wanted to point out that her view is very common for ammy’s and that might indeed be why we have two different view points on this.

Most pro’s handle and get to know many, many more horses than an ammy ever will. Their experience with horses and owners and change is much more wide-reaching. Personally I would be relieved to know that my horse was not a basket case without me, but I guess that’s just me :lol: Honestly, if horses were just devastated after their owners left, I would never recommend anyone ever put one in training or boarded one or - as A2 mentions, go to the bathroom :lol: I do think that horses recognize people, of course they do. But they don’t dwell upon them in their absence. I have four horses in my upper pasture right now (that are not mine) that are happily eating grass with their friends and I am quite sure that if we could read their minds, it would be something like this… "ahhh… grass… sun… shade… grass… water… ahhhhh… hmmm… dogs… hmmm… grass… oh, my friend… grass… ah, EqT!.. food… scritchies… spray stuff… grass…

and yet each of them has a loving, caring owner who will be happy to see them and vice versa.

In my case, I keep my business small enough so that no horse is ever “just a horse” and it’s never just a job. I can understand why people would be worried about that. Being careful WHO you leave your horse with is very important!