I have a hunter that schools in a gag/elevator/hackamore... ideas for showing?

[Alexis_Mellark]

Hey guys! Like the title says, I have a lovely hunter who is very happy schooling in an eggbut happy mouth gag bit, a hackamore, or pretty much any kind of gag/elevator bit. I have tried him in a pelham, but it was a slow twist and I’m not sure if he hated the pelham or the mouthpiece, but it did not work at all.

Despite what his bit of choice suggests, he is incredibly quiet, well schooled on the flat and over fences, and I am very light with my hands. I am not using a bit to try and gain control as he is a pleasure to ride and really wants to please. I think he responds well to a combination of mouth and poll pressure, as too much pressure in his mouth makes him throw a fit.

For whatever reason, he just goes around much lighter and happier in a gag on a day-to-day basis, but in the hunter ring we need to start exploring some new options.

Does anyone else have a hunter they school at home in a bit that is typically illegal to use in the hunter arena? And if so, what are your favorites to switch into when it’s time to step into the show ring?

[Burbank]

Have you tried riding in a baucher, or it might be worth while to try a pelham with a different mouth piece, something without a single joint

[Alexis_Mellark]

I have not tried a baucher yet, but it would be interesting to try!

[Fig]

I have switched several from a gag or elevator to a Myler level 2 dee. Love them.

[mooonie]

I had a TB former racehorse that was afraid of the bit, and was very sensitive. I found one day just hopping on bareback in a halter that he was much more quiet and relaxed, so that’s how I schooled at home. He could jump and do great dressage in a halter. For shows and lessons I used a rubber snaffle or a KK (2 joints). The question is why is your horse uncomfortable in a snaffle?

[StormWarriorC]

I’d say a smooth Pelham. I personally hate the feel of Mullen mouths, but people love putting them in horse’s mouths so that would be something to try if he can handle that bulk on his tongue.

What about a full cheek/fulmer with keepers? It’ll give a bit of leverage but still be legal?

[NancyM]

The “trick” to using a gag on a hunter is to use two reins on a “pulley” gag. That way, you are using it as a tool to teach a horse something, to break the habit of towing on the rider, and breaking the rider’s habit of using the reins too much, or using the reins to pull on. With the two reins, the pulley gag does not act as a gag as long as the horse does not start to tow. If he does start to tow, the gag action changes the angle of the action of the bit onto the corners of the mouth and raises his head, instead of on the bars, which he CAN tow from. The gag action only comes into play should the horse go to tow, otherwise it acts only as a regular snaffle. That way, the horse gets into the habit of NOT towing, with you doing “nothing” other than ride normally, softly. When to go to compete in the hunter division, you simply change the bit to a regular snaffle with exactly the same mouthpiece an ring as your gag has, but no gag second rein and no gag action. The horse does not notice that the gag action is gone, because he doesn’t need it any more, because he doesn’t have the habit of towing any more, and you are now riding off your leg, not your hand. You are using the reins for navigation only, and the horse can carry his own balance rather than balancing on your hand, or towing you when he shouldn’t. Presto, you have a hunter.

[joiedevie99]

Have you tried a D ring with hooks? Fixing the position of the cheek and rein adds just a bit of leverage.

[Brutus614]

I’m certainly not an expert, but my understanding was the a gag/elevator bit encourages the horse to lift/raise up, while a pelham encourages the horse to come down. So maybe that’s why your horse likes a gag but not a pelham?

I schooled my horse in a gag bit for a year or two and when we showed, I put in a snaffle bit with the same mouthpiece. It worked well for us because we didn’t ride in the snaffle long enough to lose the education the gag helped us create (that’s not a great way to phrase it… hopefully you catch my meaning!)

[Punkie]

My equitation horse flats in a slow twist gag and jumps in a custom segunda pelham. He’s 18.1+ and can be an absolute freight train, so he needs the elevation offered by the gag and the segunda to get him off my hands, but the finesse of the pelham while jumping. He goes far better in the segunda than he does the gag, but I don’t want him to become dull to it, so we only use it to jump/show. I don’t know if a segunda would work for your horse, but it might be worth a try in a snaffle version?

[PNWjumper]

I ride several of mine somewhat interchangeably between gags and Myler d-rings (with hooks - my person favorite is the MB43LP). I find that the myler has a similar action, and bonus that you can school on the hooks and then slip the reins onto the D-ring to be a bit more “conventional” (though I’ve also shown with the reins and bridle on the hooks).

[Posting_Trot]

I’d look at the mouthpiece on your gag bit and then find a snaffle that has the same or similar mouthpiece. Since it’s a happy mouth, is it a single-jointed happy mouth? double-jointed? mullen, etc. Find a happy mouth D ring or eggbutt.

Or you could try a happy mouth pelham.

If you decide to try a Myler bit, you can rent them from many tackstores, including ones on-line, and then buy them if your horse seems to do well in the bit. The two horses that I’ve tried a Myler on did not like the bit, and since these bits tend to be pricey, it makes sense to try them first.

Good luck!

[Small_Change]

A pelham without a curb chain could give a similar feel to a Dutch gag/3-ring gag if you kept the mouth piece consistent between the bits. It would be close to riding with a rein on the top and bottom rings, especially if you could find a rugby pelham that has a loose ring for the snaffle instead of a fixed one.

A full cheek with keepers does not give you leverage, it only stops the rotation of the mouthpiece (and keeps the bit from being quite so liable to get caught on things).

[KBC]

@Small Change

A full cheek with keepers does not give you leverage, it only stops the rotation of the mouthpiece (and keeps the bit from being quiet so liable to get caught on things).

So glad someone picked that one up.

[blondewithchrome]

My old jumper slash eq horse schooled in a 3 ring and showed in either a happy mouth Pelham or a segunda w D rings. The Segunda was fabulous on him but we only used it for shows, and worked like a charm. Since you have soft hands, it could be a good one to try - it is not a good fit for a heavy handed or uneducated rider as it is notably harsh when used incorrectly.

what is it about the single Jointed Pelham he didn’t like? Ran through it? Head tossing, too sensitive?

[GoodTimes]

My hunter used to get strong or heavy when he was worried. He never got quick, and always had the illusion of quiet, but he would lock through the jaw. It generally never happened at home, just off property.

We tried a segunda which certainly gave me more control and adjustability, but he didn’t like it.

Fast forward and we’ve been in a Level 2 myler (D ring), MB04. I love it, he stays nice and soft without trying to drag me down or opening his mouth.
When he’s tense or worried it’s so much easier to work through it, and since I’m not getting pulled off balance we don’t have many oops moments while jumping.

[meupatdoes]

@NancyM

The “trick” to using a gag on a hunter is to use two reins on a “pulley” gag. That way, you are using it as a tool to teach a horse something, to break the habit of towing on the rider, and breaking the rider’s habit of using the reins too much, or using the reins to pull on. With the two reins, the pulley gag does not act as a gag as long as the horse does not start to tow. If he does start to tow, the gag action changes the angle of the action of the bit onto the corners of the mouth and raises his head, instead of on the bars, which he CAN tow from. The gag action only comes into play should the horse go to tow, otherwise it acts only as a regular snaffle. That way, the horse gets into the habit of NOT towing, with you doing “nothing” other than ride normally, softly. When to go to compete in the hunter division, you simply change the bit to a regular snaffle with exactly the same mouthpiece an ring as your gag has, but no gag second rein and no gag action. The horse does not notice that the gag action is gone, because he doesn’t need it any more, because he doesn’t have the habit of towing any more, and you are now riding off your leg, not your hand. You are using the reins for navigation only, and the horse can carry his own balance rather than balancing on your hand, or towing you when he shouldn’t. Presto, you have a hunter.

I mean this can also be achieved by “putting the horse on your lower back” and installing a half halt that goes through.

From seat, not reins.

[merrygoround]

@meupatdoes

I mean this can also be achieved by “putting the horse on your lower back” and installing a half halt that goes through.

From seat, not reins.

Oh Shucks! that means learning to ride.

[Alexis_Mellark]

In the slow twist pelham, he was fine at first but after a couple rides he started head tossing and kept trying to speed up and literally escape the pressure if I picked up on the reins at all. Unless I rode him on the buckle, he was visibly uncomfortable and upset. I feel like it had more to do with the mouthpiece than the pelham, but he goes so well in a gag that I just went back to that for the time being. He wants to trot and canter with his head between his knees like a western pleasure horse, and he is a very long 17hh+ hunter, so elevation is incredibly important to keep him balanced while jumping. I do not need the gag to school problems out of him, he is very well trained and loves his job. He doesn’t pull or hang on the bit at all. He was a lesson horse in a past life so I feel like bits that only offer pressure in the mouth make him nervous. I can be much lighter with a bit that distributes pressure in multiple areas, and I feel like that’s why the gag works so well on him. Really his only fault is that after a course he doesn’t have the best brakes, so a courtesy circle is almost always necessary.

So I guess my goal here isn’t to find a bit that is so soft he doesn’t notice it’s there. It’s to find a bit that allows me to be very soft in my hand and still communicate with him well. The segunda mouthpiece is interesting, I’ve never tried one before and I’m not totally sure how it works but I will look into it! And i haven’t tried a straight bar on him, and while it looks like it applies a lot of pressure, he might like the thicker mouthpiece since it distributes pressure so evenly across a wider surface area. I’d rather avoid a pelham simply because I need some elevation in his frame, I don’t need his head to go any lower lol. And since D’s and Full Cheeks are basically the same thing, I tend to stick with D’s when possible.

But these are all great ideas! I’m just starting to play around with bits for him, but with COVID-19, it’s not like we’ll be showing anytime soon. So we have plenty of time to find a solution lol