I have a question.....

[CDE_Driver]

Please don’t come and firebomb my house…it really is an honest question!

I don’t know anything about eventing dressage. I looked at photos posted on different sites and blogs of it. My question is why the riders look like they get all crooked and cattiwampus during some of the movements. I understand dressage is just one phase these horses and riders have to do and it isn’t their focus. I guess I just thought at this level they would look more like “real” (there, okay, I said it) dressage riders.

I really am curious, not being snarky…promise.

[Larksmom]

wellll,

you do realize these horses are fit to within an inch of their lives? One poor rider today, horse had a meltdown. I felt so sorry for the rider. Horse was just thinkin, we don’t need no stinkin dressage! A couple could probably go on to pure dressage, great movers. Most are good but not great but they do three phases remember. They then have to finish xc SOUND and then go show jump. Hope this helps.

[ZiggyStardust]

CDE - the thread below has a good comment on the background in post #22. This is similar to comments many others have made about the history of eventing dressage, although I was not “cognizant” or old enough to have witnessed most of the glory days of eventing dressage in the 70s and 80s. I think that still, though, it is the least favorite phase for most of the horses and riders although the Germans have raised the bar in recent years, and Becky Holder and Comet have some beautiful tests.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274964&page=2

[NRB]

I think that it is because event horses and their riders have to be good at 3 different sports. One of those three sports will get you and your horse seriously injured/killed if you screw it up. And it takes so much time and energy to condition the horse for the XC. (just guessing here) Honastly if I were riding over a 4 star track I’d want to be on a XC machine. The rest is gravy.

[LauraKY]

We have a chaser turned polo horse (too big and not our choice) turned eventer turned hunter. He barely tolerates dressage (although he’s quite good at it) and, sometimes I get the impression the riders feel the same way. No pure love for dressage, just the thrill of jumping.

[doccer]

Jack of all trades syndrome :yes:

[crittertwitter]

[QUOTE=doccer;5133734]
Jack of all trades syndrome :yes:[/QUOTE]

'cept they are Masters of galloping over the river and through the woods while jumping big, solid, crazy obstacles.

[tlw]

Also, don’t forget that much of the upper level “real” dressage tests require the movements to be “collected” while eventing dressage doesn’t require nearly as much collection. Actually, there is a big debate about how too much collection in dressage training can lead to bad results in the other phases because eventers want their horses to be able to think for themselves when on x-country and not rely on the rider to place each step where he wants it.

[JDufort]

No expert here, but I’ve of the same mind as TLW. At the highest level of this sport, the horse and rider both need to bring their brain and judgement and trust to work on Saturday, or someone could get hurt.

So… having a horse that will tolerate the training required to be a world class dressage horse, and understand that “we do THIS on Thurs/Fri, but THAT on Saturday” is rare indeed.

Witness the German team today - they absolutely dominated in dressage, but how did they fare today? Not so well.

[Equa]

Well…the German Team fared VERY well in Hong Kong…despite their excellent dressage.

To the OP - are you just looking at photos? Or complete test rides. Photos can be deceiving, and while I didn’t see any rides live (sob), I have seen these horses and riders in the past, and did watch what films were available this time - and I certainly didn;t get the impression that the dressage was lacking, of that the horses were feral, or that the riders were contorting. Maybe I didn;t see the same images you did…

[akrogirl]

I guarantee that the eventer at our barn looks like a real dressage rider - she regularly scores in the low to mid 70’s at rated dressage shows (2nd level, schooling 3rd). She usually wins her events too because her horse is equally awesome in the jumping phases

[Eventer13]

I think I know which pictures you are talking about- since I had a similar reaction to the riders’ positions. It seems like most of the pictures are taken while asking for the flying change. Its also taken at an angle that accentuates the rider’s movement while asking for the change. You are (usually) not going to see the ease and fluidity in the flying change in event horses compared to dressage horses. Its a lot to ask of 4* fit horses, especially when combining it with a counter-canter loop in a serpentine.

Watch some of the tests. As someone said above, pictures are deceiving and the riders generally look quite good in the video.

[CDE_Driver]

Thank you all. I understand now. And yes Eventer13, those were the photos I saw.

As a combined driver I do know about competing a very fit horse…

[adamsmom]

It was very interesting today, as my sister rode a Reining horse while being coached by Clinton Anderson. His comment was that reining horses, like dressage horses, had to be dictated to. They could not decide that they would do a flying change here when a pirouette was required.
Likewise, a reining horse couldn’t decide to do a sliding stop when a spin was required.
So, while event horses need to take direction, they certainly can’t be dictated too, cause all riders screw up. An event horse needs to be able to say “nope, you’re wrong so we’ll do it my way” or “nope, you’re wrong, so let’s try again”.

But, given the right training and approach, they can still do lovely dressage. Just not all of them (or us) really have that desire. And sometimes, you’d rather be on a horse that’s gonna take you clean and fast around cross country than one who’s gonna be great in dressage, but that makes you work for it on XC.
Not all horses can do all phases well. It’s often a choice as to which you prefer.

Me? I want to be pretty certain my guy’s jumping whatever’s in front of him, whether I get it right or not.

[Equa]

This is an interesting concept - but watching the eventing showjumping, I felt that the best rounds were like the best dressage - every single stride, the quality of the stride, and the precise line, were being directed by the rider. A horse that is adrenalized on cross country is a very different animal to the one in the dressage or jumping ring!

[TotB]

[QUOTE=Equa;5135896]
This is an interesting concept - but watching the eventing showjumping, I felt that the best rounds were like the best dressage - every single stride, the quality of the stride, and the precise line, were being directed by the rider. A horse that is adrenalized on cross country is a very different animal to the one in the dressage or jumping ring![/QUOTE]

Yes, that’s really right. The best event horses know how to tone it down enough to make it through the test (the best ones can tone it down AND be brilliant). They can turn it on for cross country and be brilliant out there as a team with their rider, and then tone it down again and listen to showjump. It’s a matter of degrees.