I am possibly buying a Bates Dressage saddle which is similar to the Bates Caprilli. I heard that the trees crack easily. Has anyone had experience with Bates saddles being ok or having a cracked tree?
[QUOTE=Haleye5197;6964108]
I am possibly buying a Bates Dressage saddle which is similar to the Bates Caprilli. I heard that the trees crack easily. Has anyone had experience with Bates saddles being ok or having a cracked tree?[/QUOTE]
Not mine, 13 years old and still in use.
1 Like
Never heard that one before, nor seen it happen with a Bates over the last 20 of more years.
1 Like
I’ve owned a few over the years and never had any problems - one was sold to a friend who is still using it - must be at least 10 years old now!
Both of mine are completely fine. The jump saddle is about 6 years old, and the dressage is about 4.
I hope not!! I have a Bate Caprilli dressage saddle. I bought it used about 4 years ago and I have had no problems with it.
I also love it 
I got one off ebay that was probably more than ten years old. Never had problem with the tree. The screws attaching the gullet come loose from time to time though.
Me neither. Somebody must have dropped theirs, or otherwise abused it to start that rumour.
Mine is good as well - it is 12 years old and even had my 17.2h Irish Draught fall on it and land right on his back. Mine is in great shape and my dressage instructor keeps telling me to keep using it rather than buy a fancy dressage saddle. It fits my guy well and fit him as he changed shape and grew.
1 Like
The only issue with the integrity of the saddle that my coach had with hers was 1) the gullet plate on her adjustable saddle would gradually flatten over time/use and 2) the leather was too soft and with her slightly downhill/“horizontal pear shaped” mare, her leg was being sucked into a too-forward position, which then caused the leather to wear in the wrong spot, sucking her leg forward even more. She ended up selling it and I think she has a Collegiate Convertible now? The stiffer leather is way better for her and her oddly built little mare. Another friend of mine has that old Bates now, and it’s still in beautiful shape and gets used almost daily. She just uses a Beval pad at the moment while her gelding puts weight back on/builds a topline again because the panels are a bit close together on him.
I think the “Bates trees break” rumor is exactly that…it is just like such and such a saddle has the stirrups set too far back, such and such has the stirrups set too far forward, the sweet spot is too close to the withers, the sweet spot is too close to the cantle, the panels are too narrow, too wide, stuffed with fake wool which is better, stuck with real wool which is better, the flaps are too straight, the flaps are too forward, the treeless saddles will kill you, the treeless saddles are the best, the saddle is too close contact, the saddle is not close contact enough…Oh, and one of the best saddles in the world “always” puts “everyone” in a chair seat…so, go buy “fill in the blank” brand for 5,000 with blocks up the yin yang and all the bells and whistles…blah, blah, blah… Just my humble opinion.
The Bates is a very well made saddle.
4 Likes
Nope. Not a rumor. My bates dressage saddle had a cracked tree. I only found out about it when I went to have the billets replaced. I bought the saddle new about 5 years prior and i never dropped it or had any horse accidents with it. Weatherbeeta (who makes bates) is notoriously hard to deal with, they refused to talk directly with me, the tack store called for me while i was standing there bates/weatherbeeta said that they’ve had to replace too many saddles due to cracked trees and are no longer honoring any tree warrenties. The owner of the tack store told me that it wasn’t the first time they’ve had this issue with this company and they are so fed up with weatherbeeta that they stopped carrying any of their products.
This is just my experiance but i would tred very carefully with any bates/wintec/collegiate saddle. I loved both my bates dressage saddle and jump saddle but have since moved on to other brands.
3 Likes
It’s good to hear all the good things about them, but the few stories with the trees are pushing me away from the Bates saddles. I’m not sure which saddle to get!
Has Weatherbeeta always owned the Bates brand? It sounds like issues arose with the newer Bates - the ones with adjustable trees.
Or maybe I got lucky - my two Haute Ecoles are ancient - bought used in the early 90s - and are clockin’ along just fine.
I had a student with an adjustable gullet Bates and it cracked near one of the screw holes where the gullet plate screwed into. It was about five years old. Nothing weird or traumatic ever happened to the saddle aside from 2-3 times a year gullet changing.
There have been some issues with the trees, but mostly around the screw holes in the gullet area. It’s common to either crack the area around the screw holes or snap the tree points off; most often happens when you’re flexing the gullet area to accept a wider or narrower plate. And my dealings with Weatherbeeta re: repairs and warranty issues on the Wintec/Bates saddles haven’t been the smoothest, sadly.
Many saddle manufacturers have gone through a major market upheaval in the last few years. When I was used saddle shopping, many reviews recommended buying XX brand saddle that were older because the current manufacturing had moved to a different country or standard. It’s similar with other manufactured goods - cars come to mind. My mechanic will recommend buying a used car built in certain years and to avoid other years like the plague. COTH has tons of threads about particular saddles - but with the recent change I am not sure its possible to access those old threads.
Well, the trees breaking due to gullet changing does make sense now that you put it that way.
I would love to hear any updates from Bates purchasers in the past 10 years. I’m seriously considering a Bates for the adjustability but the horror stories about Weatherbeeta and the cracked trees are off putting. Any evidence the situation has improved?
I actually haven’t heard much about cracked trees but so many saddles are adjustable nowadays, so there are many options out there. If the Bates tree doesn’t fit your horse, no adjusting of the gullet plate will matter. I’m not a huge fan of the kink in their gullet plate either. However, their newer saddles such as the Artiste, have adjustable thigh blocks and stirrup bars, which I find quite interesting. I don’t know much about their panel adjustments re the shims. Some horses are ok with CAIR, others not so much. I have seen some second hand that have been flocked with wool, so that’s an option too.
I just don’t like them being sold on adjustability for the horse. It’s entirely possible they still won’t fit, so a trial and a good saddle fitter would be useful. I will say if you adjust a Bates beyond its capabilities, the tree could crack. For example you shouldn’t use the Wintec wide (the specific Wide series with extra wide gullet) model gullet plates in a regular Bates saddle.
2 Likes
