Are you doing high Vitamin E, Magnesium and ALCAR? My WB mare has been a very balky type periodically - after her most recent phase I changed her diet and am seeing improvements. She gets 10 grams of ALCAR, 10 grams Vitamin C, 10,000 mg Magnesium and 8,000 iu Vitamin E spread over two feedings of about .5# Renew Gold and 2 oz of hempseed oil. Kinesio taping has helped her move more freely as well. I’ve been having someone do this every couple weeks since the beginning of the year for major muscle groups.
No, I had my hay tested and he gets adequate magnesium from that and he does get vitamin e in his balancer, but if I give him high levels of either he gets EXTREMELY tense and spooky. Like dangerous to handle and impossible to ride.
Do you have any video of this horse moving? As pssm causes changes in movement that is noticeable if you know what to look for. Also have you tried riding before lunging him? Pssm horses start off feeling well and then get sticky feet after 10-20 minutes of exercise. If you lunge first, then ride, you are riding right when the muscle stiffness starts in a pssm horse.
I agree with @Amberley that having someone on the ground with a lungewhip will be helpful if this is just a training issue.
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Does he go well bare back?
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I haven’t been brave enough to try. He’s never been ridden bareback and can be a little spooky at times so I know I’d be on the ground
Okay
I was just wondering because if he was good bare back, then it could narrow in down a little bit.
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What size circle are you lunging him?
How long? And at what gait?
Have your trainer(s) ridden him? I asked that quite a while ago but you didn’t respond (I understand there were lots of questions going back and forth) Do they have the same problem you do?
I am curious if this is a “you” problem. (with no offense meant by that, of course)
He obviously can lunge.
He obviously can follow another horse.
He had been ridden just fine for 4 months at the trainer.
So what has changed? Is there something you are doing different when you are on his back, that makes him think he doesn’t have to work?
Can you post a video? It’s way more helpful to actually see what he’s doing, and what exactly is going on.
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Another vote for PSSM, I had a mare who was extremely symptomatic, PSSM1. Even when she was doing well if the wind blew the wrong way her back & haunch muscles would get tense, it can be a difficult, frustrating, mystifying disease. This mare was normal when she was initially broke, then given a few months off for a break and immediately had tie up & behavioural issues with her when started back to work. So I have seen somewhat sudden onset of symptoms. Also very small management differences at the trainers vs at home could be enough to make a difference. Sounds funny but Weather makes a difference with PSSM too, if he was started in summer and you tried riding him in the winter it could be the cold intolerance contributing.
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We do a whole groundwork routine. So different size circles, walk/trot/canter, yielding different parts of then body, etc. he’s not just going in mindless circles. Usually 10-20 minute sessions.
My trainer hasn’t ridden him. She is almost 70 and has osteoporosis (and is technically retired from training—she just gives me lessons because we are friends and she boards her horses at the barn I manage) so she doesn’t get on any horse other than her own for her own safety. I did ride him when he was at the other trainer that is several hours away and he was perfect for me. Neither trainer could see anything that I could be doing that would make him not work for me.
She has witnessed the way he frantically bites at his cinch and is sensitive to touch there and also believes it is a physical issue.
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I think you mentioned you’ve not scoped for ulcers yet? That’s probably the best place to spend money to start with diagnostics.
I mentioned in an earlier post how my gelding…who first had ulcers, then we found the rib fractures was doing the same behavior. He got cleared to go back to work and I sent him back to the trainer to restart last month.
He was BAD…cow kicking, refusing to move, you name it, he pulled out all the stuff to avoid working. Was extra fussy grooming…even to be ponied he was mad.
Now, mind you, he had been on sucralfate for ulcers (for the past year)…and before he shipped I did full tubes of ulcergard given his ulcer history.
After realizing he wasn’t improving with the behavior even to be ponied on a trail ride…I sent him to be scoped. And, he has grade 3 ulcers that are bleeding. Poor guy had a real reason…and again, we had been doing maintenance treatment for ulcers (so you would think he would not have any).
So if you haven’t done the scope yet…start there. In the big picture, it’s really not too costly and you have a concrete answer if that might be the cause.
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I have an appointment scheduled. My trailer was buried behind a 5’ tall snow drift until last week so finally we can travel again.
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Do you have anyone else that can ride him for you, to see if the behavior is repeatable and/or different with another rider/trainer?
And a video would still be very helpful to see exactly what he’s doing when he’s doesn’t want to go forward.
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Have you tried a different girth? Is it possible the girth is too tight? I had someone tighten my girth for me on my 4-year old, and it turns out they went too far. About 5 minutes into our not terribly forward ride, he just stopped and laid down. Since then, I monitor the girth and no issues. I’ve seen other sensitive horses react similarly.
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Yeah I’ve tried 4 different styles. I was hoping that would make a difference.
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I’d be curious in a video as well but it sounds like the weather is utter crap? We have some real eagle-eyed posters here who have caught things I never could, and I’m a very experienced horse person. However, when I start looking, every horse looks lame to me because I’m a paranoid freak. I sent my vet a meme that was a picture of a camel with the words “when you hear hoofbeats” and the camel is saying “moo.” She laughed. Because I go into the stratosphere on any head bob and she knows it. Sometimes it’s zebras.
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I have an indoor but it’s hard to get video since I’m alone 99% of the time. I’ve had 2 trainers and his body worker watch him move and none have been able to find any lameness. He actually has been moving better and is has been much more willing to canter (on the lunge/loose in the arena) since I changed his diet last fall after the PSSM diagnosis.
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Following this, because there was a lesson horse at a previous barn who exhibited similar behavior with a number of riders–i.e., he’d canter a few laps, stop, back up, and almost act like he was short-circuiting. Of course, since he was a lesson horse, they never performed any real diagnostics on him. But he was the “quiet horse” for beginner adults, although often that meant the beginner adult wouldn’t move much for the lesson at all.
I am curious if you’re the only person actually riding him and he’s compliant on the lunge, though. It would seem, since you’ve gone this far, to try a few other people actually riding him to see if he is more forward or even just to see what they “feel” versus “see.”
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I did have a trainer that I do clinics with ride him at a clinic. She knows his history. My goal for the day was to address the stopping issue (if it could be addressed with training). He did the exact same thing to her and she was unable to make any progress with him or see anything that I could be doing wrong. This was a few months ago and he has gotten worse since then.
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@PaddockWood May I ask about your equine nutritionist? I have an RER mare and need to tweek her diet that is similar to a PSSM diet.
It’s Martha Faraday and I’ve been happy with the program and she’s very responsive to questions.
https://4oaksequine.com/
The fee was $350 and includes 6 months of access to her for follow up.
I decided to reach out to her after watching three of her nutrition presentations on Wendy Murdoch’s Sure Foot youtube.
I’ve been on the program 2 months and my guy is looking and feeling good. He still has some gas but no colicky behavior since starting it. Just got his root canal last Friday so thinking we are about to really get going on his development.
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