I need a dressage legal nothing bit.

[3rottenponies]

[QUOTE=mvp;8567813]
They do exist. A barnmate has one. (Also, she tried a leather bit for her fussy-mouthed TB. Turns out some of this was a lack of Thou Shalt Go Forward and Through training problem. IME, that’s often a piece of mouth fussiness. But for really incorrigible or frantic horses, I think the is some degree of genuine discomfort in their mouth.

In any case, if you want me to find out where my friend got her mullen mouth baucher, let me know.[/QUOTE]

I would absolutely love to know where, as I think it would be a useful bit to have around the barn! Thank you!

[hoopoe]

have you tried non-metal bits?

Aurigan?

I wonder how much of this is now psycho-neurotic and nothing really to do with the bit. Akin to stall weaving

[alibi_18]

I think like Hoopoe.

Horses can also be allergic to certain metals, like Nickel. Aurigan or Sensogan or any other “nickel free” alloy could help.

I know you said you’d prefer having a tiny bit (12mm or less) but this won’t encourage contact at all and could lead to even more fussing than anything else.

If you haven’t tried yet, I would encourage you to tried a way fatter bit (like 16-18mm) that has a nice tongue relief shape to it; a single jointed KK Balkenhol or a single jointed NS Semi-Anky. It would offer way more stability.

[3rottenponies]

A tiny bit won’t necessarily be a bad thing. I primarily ride (smaller, with some exceptions)Arabs and ponies, and not only do they obviously need a bit of shorter length, but some of their mouths can’t handle the thicker bits. Oftentimes there just isn’t enough space for the things to sit comfortably. Would I stick my Hanoverian cross in a 12mm bit? Heck no, I would probably never be able to get his nose off of his chest. But some of the smaller mouthed horses do go around quite happily in a thinner bit.

[StormyDay]

OP, when was the last time your horses’ teeth were floated?
I would get them checked, I find that when the horse displays those signs under saddle, it is usually the teeth.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

Have you tried this one? https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/jp-korsteel-oval-mouth-eggbutt-6148

I have found this bit to be quite comfortable for horses that do not have a lot of room in their mouths, i.e. low pallate, thick tong. On my previous horse, she hated all bits but tolerated a mullen mouth loose ring my friend had. She liked this one even more than the mullen mouth!

[Ibex]

Are Sprenger Duos competition legal…? They’re thin and very still… unfortunately I thought I heard that the tongue-relief shape was considered a port

ETA: I heard wrong! Check out page 5…

https://issuu.com/equestrian/docs/dressagebits

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=3rottenponies;8568326]
A tiny bit won’t necessarily be a bad thing. I primarily ride (smaller, with some exceptions)Arabs and ponies, and not only do they obviously need a bit of shorter length, but some of their mouths can’t handle the thicker bits. Oftentimes there just isn’t enough space for the things to sit comfortably. Would I stick my Hanoverian cross in a 12mm bit? Heck no, I would probably never be able to get his nose off of his chest. But some of the smaller mouthed horses do go around quite happily in a thinner bit.[/QUOTE]

I understand your point but the OP said her horse was really sensitive and light in the mouth. My mare also have a fat tongue and a low palate but still prefer the ‘‘wider’’ surface of contact a thicker bit will provide.

It is this part of the OP that made me think a fatter bit would probably be a better choice. [QUOTE=Keg-A-Bacchus;8567693]She’s extremely light in the contact and aside from needing to communicate a bend or flexion here or there I hardly use my reins and she’s in lovely self-carriage. [/QUOTE]

Reading it again also makes me think that the OP’s problem is maybe not related to bits in general but more about her horse accepting a real CONSISTENT contact.

Me think the horse is not at all in self-carriage but in a false frame. The OP’s horse is just avoiding any type of contact from the bit since it is only given/taken here and there.
THIS IS OF COURSE JUST AN ASSUMPTION, I HAVEN’T SEEN THE OP’S HORSE!

[myhorsefaith]

OP, I feel you. My gelding is very much the same way- never in my life have I had to try so many bits for 1 horse, his collection is embarrassing! His magic bit (at the moment, I suspect it’ll change over time) is a myler low & wide port w/ eggbutt cheeks. They make it in a loose ring cheek too if you prefer. I do think they also make a baucher cheek but I am not sure of the mouth pieces available.

http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Myler_Wide_Ported_Barrel_Eggbutt_Bit_MB_33WL/descpage-MEWPBB.html

I was really never one to buy into the Myler program of bitting - I have used them in the past on other horses and never really saw anything special about them. However, with this horse I had to open up and try things. This particular bit, while it doesn’t part the clouds and the heavens sing, has been our best bit so far - very little fussiness, much less than any other bit I’ve ever used on him. I like it because we can actually work in it without being constantly distracted by the bit.

I had to go through a few models before I settled on this one. The plain comfort snaffle and the regular low-port did nothing good for him, and the higher non-legal port was too much. This low & wide one allows for tongue space, it is fairly stable, and legal too. I use it on a Micklem, and the combo of bridle + bit has been the best so far, allowing us to go places in our training that I thought were never going to be possible.

Good luck!

[pluvinel]

If you want to show recognize that the minimum diameter of the mouthpiece is 10mm.

I would try an overcheck bit.
http://www.bigdweb.com/Straight-Overcheck-Bit/productinfo/926/

Or a bridoon bit as used with a double bridle
http://www.sstack.com/english_bits_bradoons/fes-french-link-loose-ring-bradoon/

This bridoon is 8mm, but might be interesting to experiment to see how horse reacts and if she adapts after having a smaller diameter in the mouth.
http://www.sstack.com/english_bits_bradoons/fes-elite-smooth-ss-bradoon/

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=myhorsefaith;8568456]
OP, I feel you. My gelding is very much the same way- never in my life have I had to try so many bits for 1 horse, his collection is embarrassing! [/QUOTE]

I’m there, too. I’ve got an entire box full of bits that didn’t work out. I’ve tried thick, I’ve tried thin, mullen mouth, oval link, JP Korsteel single jointed, Happy Mouth, 2 different Mylers…

The best combo thus far is a loose ring oval link bradoon on a Micklem bridle.

Someday, I’m going to get a table at the local tack shop’s Horsey Yard Sale, and fill the entire table top with bits.

[Windermere]

NoSuchPerson (and myhorsefaith). If you have bits in a 5.5", you should contact me. I’m still searching for the right bit for my guy. =)

OP, good luck. I would recommend trying to make more detailed notes for yourself of what seems to work better, and what doesn’t work as well. What materials, shapes of bits, etc. It might help you find a pattern and lead you to the right bit.

One other thing that hasn’t been suggested yet is the titanium bits made by Lorenzini. I have not tried them yet, but I have heard good things about them for tricky to bit horses.

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

Thank you for all the help! I’m going to go look through all the links! I’ve had her in the 16mm HS Dynamic when she was intro/training level and it was the only bit she LOVED contact in. She was beautiful in it. However she was able to get it up into her teeth when bored on a loose rein or frustrated or concentrating hard and she chomped the hell out of it. I’ve been trying ever since to find something she loves as much as she loved that bit but that she can’t get up into her teeth. She has had her teeth checked twice yearly by a dentist and he’s the one suggesting a thinner bit because there is just no space in there. The Myler is the thinnest I’ve used and she will go to it for contact but doesn’t stretch into it quite as nicely as the HS Dynamic. She’s at 2nd/3rd now and has a much lighter contact then when she was younger and leaned a little on the bit for balance. She has uphill gaits now and really doesn’t need much contact at all but for a light feel so we can communicate.

We’ve tried ignoring it and just working through but it never goes away so I need to pursue more options. She’s definitely in self carriage and using her body beautifully, especially bitless. She really sits down and can elevate her front end and you can FEEL her back and the power. Of course there are times she gets tired and I can feel her “cheating” and her gaits flatten and he front end gets a bit heavier so I am confident she isn’t just in a headset.

I really, truly feel like she is uncomfortable with a bit in her mouth. At least the ones I’ve tried so far. It is also VERY possible this is now a habit she developed from being uncomfortable in the past. My plan is to get a “nothing bit” that I know isn’t pushing or poking anywhere and do some lunging with it just in her mouth, using a cavesson. Then I want to put it on a bit hanger and still use the bitless but just have it sitting in her mouth. Finally, I will add a second rein and slowly transition from the bitless to the bit and cross my fingers this stops. If she fusses with it now she gets a bump and a swat and she will stop but a minute later she tries again and gets corrected again. I don’t want to correct her or retrain her until I’m SURE she’s not uncomfortable. The fact she goes so beautifully bitless is a pretty strong indicator to me she either a) is uncomfortable in the bit or b) developed a habit and every time any bit is in her mouth she tries to play with it and gets frustrated if she can’t. I definitely want to try a few more styles, materials and thicknesses of bits before I push through as if it’s just a training problem.

[IndyEquestrian]

Another vote for the Neue Schule Bits. . .we sell a lot of them to fussy horses. . Both the starter and the Verbindend, as well as Bauchers.

[hoopoe]

another thought is that this might be a facial pressure issue which she reacts to with her mouth

someone posted a photo link, I think last week, of an international rider with a unique headstall ( bridle) configuration

have you tried simply removing her cavasson / noseband

[alibi_18]

If it was me, I’d put her in a 16 or even 18mm single jointed KK Balkenhol.
It will be way harder to suck it up and chomp on it and way more stable in her mouth.

Maybe there is not much space, but there will be not much space for her to play with the bit!!! :winkring:

Since she liked best her HS Dynamic (I supposed it was a double jointed?), I don’t see why you wouldn’t go with something similar.

[yaya]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8569365]
another thought is that this might be a facial pressure issue which she reacts to with her mouth

someone posted a photo link, I think last week, of an international rider with a unique headstall ( bridle) configuration

have you tried simply removing her cavasson / noseband[/QUOTE]

That was the Tota Comfort System noseband.

[see_u_at_x]

What about something super lightweight like a Nathe or a Lorenzini bit? Could those be worth a try?

[StormyDay]

[QUOTE=Keg-A-Bacchus;8568694]
She has had her teeth checked twice yearly by a dentist and he’s the one suggesting a thinner bit because there is just no space in there. [/QUOTE]

Is she sedated during the checks? Unless you can put a speculum on her and really look, which requires sedation, it is very easy to miss something.
I would hate for you to spend 100$ of dollars in bits, for a 150$ vet fix.

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

[QUOTE=StormyDay;8569496]
Is she sedated during the checks? Unless you can put a speculum on her and really look, which requires sedation, it is very easy to miss something.
I would hate for you to spend 100$ of dollars in bits, for a 150$ vet fix. :)[/QUOTE]

She is sedated and to be on the safe side I’ve had 2 different dentists check her…just to be sure! Everything in her teeth looks good!

I have tried a Miklem (no change) and no noseband (no change).

I originally was trying to find a 16mm bit that didn’t bend (so she can’t get it up in her teeth) to mimic the HS Dynamic Eggbutt. She hated all of them (thicker mullens, HS Duo, etc) and my dentist suggested I go thinner. Even though she took a nice contact in it he still thinks her chomping on it like a toy was for tongue relief. So I switched my gears to looking for a thinner bit now. It’s something I haven’t tried so worth checking out!