I need a dressage legal nothing bit.

[alibi_18]

I don’t know why this part wasn’t included in my last post but anyway…

This sounds like a good plan. I’ve done it myself on a few horses and it worked wonders. It takes time but if you are skilled with 2 sets of reins, it will be easier to do the transition as you will be able to alternate from the bitless to the bit in the same ride and/or play with both at the time.

[QUOTE=Keg-A-Bacchus;8568694]
My plan is to get a “nothing bit” that I know isn’t pushing or poking anywhere and do some lunging with it just in her mouth, using a cavesson. Then I want to put it on a bit hanger and still use the bitless but just have it sitting in her mouth. Finally, I will add a second rein and slowly transition from the bitless to the bit and cross my fingers this stops.[/QUOTE]

Good luck!

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

Riddle me this oh great COTH minds! What types of bits (besides Mullen mouths) can a horse not push up into their teeth? That could be a good place for me to start!

[Hawks_Nest]

[QUOTE=Keg-A-Bacchus;8569555]
Riddle me this oh great COTH minds! What types of bits (besides Mullen mouths) can a horse not push up into their teeth? That could be a good place for me to start![/QUOTE]

the stubben ez control and bits like that I believe are the hardest to pull up (without being mullens). It is what curbed my boys chomping habit and now that he has transitioned away from it he only does it when bored

[hoopoe]

[QUOTE=yaya;8569408]
That was the Tota Comfort System noseband.[/QUOTE]

yes thats it

[equiniphile]

Are leather bits legal for dressage? I believe they’re legal for eventing dressage but not sure about USDF. Might be worth a try.

I’ve also had good luck with the Sprenger Duos. I have my boy in one now.

[soloudinhere]

My horse that was/is like this HATES the sprenger duo and puts his tongue over it constantly. So far the best has been the Ovation Elite D ring - they are made for horses with small mouths. If this doesn’t stay promising I am going to move on to that happy mouth baucher or the MB33 D ring - which sadly is not eventing legal.

[ivy62]

I apologize in advance as I have not read the entire thread. My horse is uber sensitive in the mouth and is happiest in a hackamore but he actually likes the Nathe bit. If it has been suggested before I apologize. Take a look at it. I know Bit of Britain has it.
Good luck

[see_u_at_x]

[QUOTE=ivy62;8569813]
I apologize in advance as I have not read the entire thread. My horse is uber sensitive in the mouth and is happiest in a hackamore but he actually likes the Nathe bit. If it has been suggested before I apologize. Take a look at it. I know Bit of Britain has it.
Good luck[/QUOTE]

Oh, good. I was beginning to think I was crazy and am glad I’m not the only one thinking about the Nathe which I suggested on page 2. I suggested it for a friend of mine who has a horse who likes to drop behind the contact. Also, as I previously posted, it might be worth a try to check out the Lorenzini bits. Not a cheap fix, though, if one goes that route.

[mvp]

OP, here’s the baucher mullenmouth that my buddy got and where:

http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_88&products_id=482&zenid=d60199579636cb1625eaa1be0abd41b2

Check out this one as well, as it has a bit of a port/room for the tongue:

http://www.horsebitbank.com/abbey-ported-hanging-cheek-724.phtml

This site-- the Bit Bank in England-- looks like it has a big selection of stuff you can’t find in the US.

ETA: OP, cruise around in that CotswoldSports website. They have some interesting mullenmouth combinations that you don’t see in the US. And the bits themselves aren’t expensive.

Also, I googled “baucher mullenmouth” and then chose “images”. Google offered me a misspelling of baucher (boucher) and I took it. Then I just clicked on interesting-looking bits. You can even find a waterford, aurigan-mouth baucher somewhere in this world.

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;8569545]
I don’t know why this part wasn’t included in my last post but anyway…

This sounds like a good plan. I’ve done it myself on a few horses and it worked wonders. It takes time but if you are skilled with 2 sets of reins, it will be easier to do the transition as you will be able to alternate from the bitless to the bit in the same ride and/or play with both at the time.

Good luck! :)[/QUOTE]

I was thinking along the same lines. I’d even say, if it’s an option, put your competition plans on hold for this season so there is no urge to rush things. Then ride bitless for a long stretch of time, months. Then put a very small bit in her mouth on the hangers, but keep riding on the bitless noseband. This first bit that you transition to doesn’t need to be your final bit, so it could be leather or rubber or anything, even if they aren’t “dressage legal.”

The reason for giving her a long break from the bit is that, IME, once a mare learns a reaction to something that annoys her, she will continue that reaction even if the annoying thing is removed. So right now, she may over-react to any bit even if it isn’t bothering her that much. The same way that a mare can learn to toss her head from one or two rides with a clumsy beginner, and then continue tossing even when someone more skilled is riding. OK, maybe not just mares, but mares in particular. So she may need time to forget that a bit ever bothered her, before you try out potentially more comfy bits.

While you are riding bitless, see if she throws any resistances at you, if there is anything that pops up to replace the bit chewing. That will help you see if the bit discomfort is the central problem.

However, riding bitless, there isn’t really a way to have meaningful contact like there is in a snaffle, which is both a problem and an opportunity. It means that you will end up working a lot more on seat, leg, balance aids. It also means that if you are at all “handsy,” you can cure that because you will be riding more on a slightly draped rein.

When you start to introduce the bit again, you might want to do some of the in-hand work like you would do with a colt, to re-introduce her to the bit. I think you said in your OP that the mare goes nicely in self-carriage with little contact? Or did I get that wrong? Anyhow, it is possible that she has never really learned to accept contact, and even when she seems to be going with a correct posture, is actually behind the bit to some extent. If that is the case, teaching her to seek contact and reach for the bit (rather than just put up with you taking contact) might help.

I worked through a set of problems on my mare a few years ago by switching to a sidepull (basically, just a noseband) for about a year, to my coach’s horror :). Maresy would still stretch to the bit, and I found she would still collect (to the extent we’d reached with the snaffle at that point) mostly with me shifting weight. But over time, we lost some of our bend and balance. There just wasn’t quite the nuance of communication with no bit. We got it back quickly when I returned to the snaffle.

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

Scribbler that is almost the exact plan! If she doesn’t fall in love with the final bit selections I plan on doing just that. Just a bit hanger and I’ll work her in hand, on the lunge and under saddle off the bitless with a non-existent bit just hanging there. She shows zero replacement resistance habits of conflict behaviors in the bitless. None. She goes along, stretches down when I ask, sits up and collects off my seat and core in an instant and is hot off my leg. She’s relaxed and happy and willing to try whatever I ask of her. In a bit she will buckle down and go when I say “no chewing/snatching” but it’s never the same happiness as I get in the bitless. I can ride this mate with no reins at all and go from a very collected, cadenced trot to a medium and back again. She will do it in a bit as well but at some point the fussing will begin even if her body is doing what I ask.

I tried the Duo bit and she hated it…granted I think it looked waaaay thicker than 16mm. Is the Nathe that different? She wouldn’t stop sticking her tongue out and trying to spit it out even in crossties. I’m really interested in the leather bit. I’ve never seen one or used one so I have no idea what to look for! Do I want thick or thin? Any advice on that would be welcomed! If it’s not the bit and it’s just behavioral I have no issue going all the way back to groundwork and retraining her. I started her in a French-link (like I have with all the babies) and I had no idea it was pushing her tongue up into her throat until a dentist came out and showed me. I felt awful! It’s very possible her first experiences with a bit (4-5 months in that) are just hard-wiring her to reject anything I put in there. She did get switched from that straight to the HS Dynamic and was INCREDIBLE immediately. It was 5 rides in she started pushing it up in her teeth and chomping on it. I’m so confused by all this! She’s not an anxious mare. She’s exceptionally willing. Eager to work and please more so than any other horse I’ve known but this just keeps going on. Sigh.

[crimsonsky]

not sure if this was already suggested - but i have two horses that both prefer the least amount of weight in a bit and the softest thing they can get. both horses go in a Nathe loose ring bit and the difference in how they respond vs. a “typical” bit is amazing. just a thought of something to try.

[csaper58]

If your horse is parrot mouthed, are the top cheek teeth forward of the bottom cheek teeth?

If they are, the bit could be causing the inside of her cheeks to be pinched by those teeth. She may be trying to grip the bit in her teeth to prevent the pinching.

www.bitbybit.ws/checkbits.shtml bit #205 the smooth mullen over check could have the small 1 inch rings replaced with 2 1/2 or 3 inch rings to make it a loose ring. They can also make it any mouth size.

They also make a leather bit (#211 same page) that could be put on bigger rings.

This company can also make custom bits.

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

I’m ordering a leather bit to have on hand because it certainly seems mild and worth a try! I can’t find anything in the rulebook about if leather bits are legal in competitions. Does anyone know offhand?

[alibi_18]

Leather bits are NOT dressage legal.

It is not a solid material.

Bits may be recovered with plastic or rubber (metal base).

[csaper58]

As alibi_18 said… leather bits are not legal.

But they are a useful tool to determine if the taste/texture of metal is what bothers a horse, and to help retrain a horse that hates bits.

If you are in a cold part of the country, leather is also kinder than metal in the winter.

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

My order is in and I’m excited to give a leather bit a try! My Myler ported Baucher should be here soon and who knows…maybe it will be a winner! If not I have some great ideas from you guys! Thank you!!!

[poltroon]

Those of you who have tried the leather bits, did you go loose ring or D-ring? I was wondering if the D-ring style would rub.

And thanks for the link to the mullen baucher!

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8572635]
If you are in a cold part of the country, leather is also kinder than metal in the winter.[/QUOTE]

Most horses don’t seem to mind about cold bits but I always warm up my horse’s bit either with hot water or by holding it on me while I get ready.

[Lieslot]

See if you can get a trial/rental on a Lorenzini titanium bit. They are so incredibly light. The horse barely realizes there’s something in their mouth, so very light.
And they stay cool, do not retain heat.
There are places you can rent them for 10 days.

http://www.vtosaddlery.com/category/LOR.htm

http://www.barnmice.com/profiles/blogs/why-titanium-products-are-beneficial-for-humans-and-horses