I need more brakes!

[Laurierace]

My mare is in full training with a very able trainer so don’t worry that I am trying to slog through this alone, but I am looking for suggestions for a cross country bit for a horse who LOVES to jump. We were using a gag bit which worked great for a couple of months (we only used it when schooling XC so maybe 5 times?) but the last time she reacted to half halts by not only slowing down a little which we want but also by lowering her head which we don’t want. I was half halting on my approach to a water complex and by the time I got to the water there was no horse in front of me.

Tried an elevator bit at home and worked well we thought but did the Derbycross at Fair Hill on Saturday and trainer said she really had to work to slow her down.

Now what?

[fordtraktor]

Try a W full cheek snaffle. I find them to permit control without horses getting behind the bit too much.

http://profchoice.com/i-7261651-gina-miles-full-cheek-w-snaffle-bit.html

It comes in a gag version too. I used that very briefly on my super strong junior jumper back in the day. But I’ve used the full cheek on horses that would curl in a gag. It is a good bit and a lot of horses respond well to it.

You can also try a segunda, they were popular for a while but I always found them to be TOO much bit. it really backs a horse off the bit though, I think too much. However if nothing else is going to hold the horse, it probably will.

Also you can try a hackabit. Some horses respond very well to them.

[fordtraktor]

Also – I haven’t myself tried the Wilson-type 4 ring bits but that might be something to consider as well. There are a few in the Gina Miles collection from Prof Choice you can look at.

[Laurierace]

Thank you, I will look into those. My husband cleaned out the garage yesterday and put a lot of my horse stuff in a pile. One of the things he found was a full cheek with a slow twist. I was thinking of trying that but think I like the one you linked to better.

She is not running off like a lunatic or anything but gets very forward and it is harder to adjust her takeoff spot. If you watched her go you would probably never know but when you are on her it can get hairy.

[Highflyer]

My horse really likes the Cartwheel gag: http://www.bitofbritain.com/Nunn-Finer-Sensation-Single-Jointed-Cartwheel-Bit-p/8011.htm

I used the W mouth for a bit and while it worked, he definitely is softer in the Cartwheel. Most of the other gags were either too much (American) or not enough (3 ring, Beval)

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8822148]
My horse really likes the Cartwheel gag: http://www.bitofbritain.com/Nunn-Finer-Sensation-Single-Jointed-Cartwheel-Bit-p/8011.htm

I used the W mouth for a bit and while it worked, he definitely is softer in the Cartwheel. Most of the other gags were either too much (American) or not enough (3 ring, Beval)[/QUOTE]
.I like that! Is that the same as the wondergag?

[fordtraktor]

I totally get it, I have a very bold horse too and it scares me to death to just gallop pell-mell at a fence without being able to adjust if necessary. So I use something strong enough so that I can hold him between hand and leg. Brakes are a safety issue!

Mine goes in a French link Beval but if a gag is too much/causing curling, that and the cartwheel might too. Mine will curl on the flat if he’s wound up but he stays up in front of me when he jumps which is what matters. I flat him in just a snaffle.

If you can borrow or find some stuff to try, that is probably the best idea. You might also try a Pelham.

[Saskatoonian]

Try the slow twist, esp since you have it - it worked perfectly on my strong horse. I never used it at home - only at events - the start box set him off in more ways than one!

[riderboy]

Hard rubber mullen mouth Pelham with curb chain and single rein converter. I really like it and my wife has one in her half draft freight train as well.

[ndirish07]

I second the slow twist. I was opposed to trying one (the horror of a non-smooth mouthpiece) but I tried it and it works wonders!! My horse tends to carry himself with his head up when we jump but he’s also a bit of an attack machine and and loves to just drag me all over as we go Mach 5. I tried a Stubben goldenwings and tried all the options and they just made him curl. The gag action, even without using sliding cheek pieces, made him curl and I had nothing in front of me. I also felt like I hung on him because I was still trying to get him to half halt and listen—but he curled. Wash rinse and repeat and it was just a downspiral to me feeling like I was being taken for a ride.

Enter the slow twist. I can half halt and get an actual response and then we go about our merry way without me pulling on his face every 2 seconds. We’re both much happier.

ETA- I just saw the carthwheel bit someone posted. That’s almost identical to what I tried in the Stubben 4-in 1 gag goldenwings bit. It caused my horse to curl and he’s not inclined to curl. I have a feeling that bit may cause similar issues for your horse as my horse sounds very similar to yours. You couldn’t see that I had no brakes just watching. But let me tell you I had no brakes and it was mildly terrifying when I was used to riding an almost pony strided horse and this is full on 17.0 hand horse with a huge stride. I need brakes.

[Laurierace]

Ok, assuming the slow twist fits her mouth, I don’t even know what size it is, I will try it today. We are headed back to Fair Hill this afternoon. I don’t think I have any keepers though so it might not be the perfect experiment.

[Synthesis]

Don’t worry about keepers. Full cheeks are there to assist with steering. Keepers interfere with that action AND pull the joints of a snaffle up into the palate.

Full cheeks and D rings do the same thing so you could use a D ring too. Slow twist is often easier to find in a D since its popular in the hunter riing

[Bogie]

I would try the slow twist first if it fits – don’t worry about the keepers. I have found it has worked for several of my horses.

Bitting up will depend on what you horse responds to – different bits will put pressure on the corners of the lips, the bars, tongue, chin groove, poll and roof of the mouth. It’s not as simple as saying go up a level :).

I foxhunt, so my mileage may vary. For my own horses:

My OTTB goes best in a bit with a curb chain and which gives tongue relief. I ride him in a kimberwicke with a quarter moon mouthpiece. He listens to it but it doesn’t make him curl behind the bit. He also did well in a waterford snaffle. He hates any kind of double jointed bit and despised the gags that I tried.

My mare goes in a PeeWee snaffle. it’s a thin mullen mouth which also has bars that extend down from bit and put a small amount of pressure on the jaw when the rein is engaged. The bit is very quiet in the mouth and offers tongue relief. My mare (clyde-TB) was very fussy in her mouth until I found this bit. I worried that it wouldn’t give us brakes out hunting but it’s been fine.

[asterix]

For something completely different, you could try a lever noseband. It looks alarming but my very fussy, will curl, will freak out in a big bit horse goes so nicely in it. I can half halt with no argument but without losing the forward or the balance.

[EventerAJ]

My horse’s magic bit is a loose ring cherry roller. He used to be very strong, and spent time in a rubber mullen pelham, then slow twist dr Bristol, and French mouth 3-ring. He needed the pelham for safety and control on the beginning, but eventually began to curl in the leverage bits, even with 2 reins. I wanted his nose out, galloping into my hand, with a solid half halt when needed. Along with more seasoning and improved rideability, the cherry roller does the trick. The rollers discourage leaning and pulling down, but they also can be used sharply in an “I SAID COME BACK NOW!” manner if you use a brief pulley rein. In that instance, it’s like a mild twist sliding laterally across the bars, and my horse responds with “yes ma’am, copy that” without getting worried or curling. With no leverage, he gallops comfortably into my hand with good balance. This is the bit he’s worn for long format P3D, intermediate, and CCI 2*.

[beowulf]

I would try slow twist, cherry roller or waterford before exploring more gag bits. IME, gags bring the head down or BTV which is not what we want if your horse is already curling.

[Saskatoonian]

Good luck! FWIW I didn’t use keepers on my full cheek slow twist either.

ETA thanks for the cherry roller description, AJ. Kind of in a bitting quandary myself.

[PaintedHunter]

I have gone through the ringer with bits for my horse who can get very heavy and sometimes difficult to control. The magic bit for jumping has been this Western gag: https://www.amazon.com/Coronet-Wonder-Sweet-Mouth-5-Inch/dp/B0011UHRSQ

I can keep soft hands, and I have regained control. For dressage, he goes in a single-jointed full cheek.

[goodmorning]

I like the slow twist Dr. Bristol.

The cherry roller sounds interesting, as does the W bit.

[enjoytheride]

I had a strong gelding back in the day and he ran straight through a corkscrew while laughing at me. It was hilarious how little stop I had and he did much better with some leverage and even better with nose pressure. Have you thought about something with some nose pressure?

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/myler-2ring-combo-bit-lowport-comfort-snaffle/E013208/

Mikmar makes a similar version with the nose rope. Some horses really like this bit.

https://mikmar.com/images/product-line/largebits/short-bit_03.jpg