honestly - after a time being in “the pony world” where pasture breeding is quite normal and where stallions mares and babies all live in harmony - i cant quite wrap my brain around the idea of basically raping a mare. i understand money is the driving factor, but i am not sure i would ever go that against nature.
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;5685022]
Have her checked her again. You absolutely sure she’s not in foal? Typically, the number one reason for a mare to behave like she is, especially as she has stood like a rock previously is that she is already in foal…
Good luck![/QUOTE]
Oh, good one again Kathy! I’ve had mares end up in foal AFTER the vet said they weren’t. I bet she’s already in foal too!
Coloredcowhorse and Kyzteke, normally, we have 4 people but we were one man down and I just didn’t want to risk having the foal that close… just in case.
Mbm, thats anthropomorphizing. The mare doesn’t think, “Oh no, I have just been raped. Those people suck for aiding and abetting.” Its called preserving your assests and insuring safety.
not anthropomorphizing at all. its called going against mother nature for human gain. the mares have a reason for not wanting to be bred. in this case possible pregnancy. really mother nature does know best
[QUOTE=rodawn;5685589]
You know, it just might be worth it to not only wear a helmet but also one of those safety vests that the eventing riders wear. Geez, a kick to the chest or upper stomach would kill you. I hope you get it all sorted out. I definitely would not be dealing with this mare again. Her behaviour is just not worth you or your stallion getting hurt. [/QUOTE]
Funny you mention the vest. Jos now wears one when we’re collecting stallions - although it’s a leather bull riding vest instead of an event vest. There’s nothing on the bull vest that a horse can get his teeth into. But, after a particularly bizarre spring, he had gotten struck in the chest and separated his sternum, picked up by his jacket on another occasion, and we watched a third stallion eviscerate the breeding mount :O. Just seemed a smart thing to do. Everyone in the breeding shed wears helmets now. Most the boys are perfectly behaved, but we deal with a lot of stallions that we know absolutely nothing about. At this stage in life, I just can’t imagine adding a mare to the mix if it can be avoided, especially one that is taking a really strong dislike to the situation. Can’t blame ya for pulling out and not covering her, cross…Not worth it for ANYONE to get hurt…
Hey Kathy, check out her stallion, by one of your favorites:)
[QUOTE=carolprudm;5686260]
Hey Kathy, check out her stallion, by one of your favorites:)[/QUOTE]
<smile>…Yeah…we have Touch of the Blues here for the breeding season. He sure stamps his get, doesn’t he? Gonna cross one of our mares on Blue this year :D! Love that boy and really, really love what he’s throwing…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5685857]
My own observation is that once the foal is over a month old, the mare doesn’t really care (within limits of course) where the baby is once the stallion starts teasing her. I’ve never had the nerve to let the baby be at liberty while we are breeding…
I have limited experience breeding mares LC w/foals at foot, but that what I’ve observed in the few cases where I have done it.[/QUOTE]
Have done in-hand LC for years…babies are halter trained by the time mom is in foal heat most often. And I think you are right…often fussy about baby during foal heat but by 30 day they are a lot more relaxed (and babies a lot bolder). Pasture breed my own most often and babies either tuck in at mom’s chest or are off on their own being nosey about something. Afterall…horse breeding isn’t a whole lot longer time wise than a slow rabbit. Have never had a foal injured by a stallion (maybe lucky but my boys seem to just love foals and will be seen out there babysitting while mom’s are snoozing in the sun!). Outside mare’s with foals…babies never loose and mom’s not in the herd.
If you’re referring to live cover in TBs, I’m guessing that you’ve never seen it done. I’ve watched maybe 300-400 live covers and I’ve never seen a mare “raped”.
By the time they’re standing in front of the stallion, the mares are absolutely ready to be bred. The vast majority are not only receptive but overtly willing.
In the last 10 years, I’ve seen only 3 mares arrive at the breeding shed that didn’t want to be bred. Stallion is backed away. Booties and twitch come off, and mare is sent home until she’s ready. Nobody’s doing anything “against nature”.
I spoke to the owner and described the scene. She agreed that the mare “could” be pregnant and they would have call her vet immediately and have her checked again when they get her home. The mare is no longer showing the signs of heat today, so breeding is a moot point…and also nothing that I’m inclined to try after yesterday’s performance!!! I spoke with my vet again today and she agreed that an embryo could have been missed. In any case we have all survived. I probably got the worst of anyone with my stomped on foot and whacked head!! When the pain meds wore off, I really could feel the effects of whip lash. Certain quick moves make me feel like my head may pop off!!! I won’t do those moves for a bit!!! Thanks for all the suggestions.
I had a mare that we tried to live cover on several heat cycles with a vet’s assistance on both ultrasounding to confirm “readiness” and drugging to the point the mare could barely stand. But the mare contintued to double barrel kick when approached. We twitched her and did everything we knew how. I gave up.
The following year in WINTER the mare was suddenly standing very very quietly and acting receptively in heat. Her behavior just seemed calmer. I approached her with the stallion just to tease across a teasing wall. Mare was absolutely receptive. After teasing her for a good solid 25 minutes just to make sure she was cooperative, I ended up covering her by MYSELF. In my defense, I had no help (and usually don’t). She was lovely to the stallion and produced quite a nice hunter pony foal for me the following year!
We never did figure it out.
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;5686205]
Funny you mention the vest. [/QUOTE]
Let’s not forget to mention the steel-toed boots with instep protection!
And now on another subject…Touch of the Blues and his offspring… I’m a bit embarrased to admit this, but 6 days ago we had a surprise present when DH went to feed one of the mares. A stunning dark brown filly with a perfect white blaze and one hind stocking!! She is 3/4 TB out of one of the Puchi’s Rambo, loud chestnut overo mares by our TOTB’s son, Seattle Blues. Sabino crapped out and Agouti struck again. Not sabino and not black, but GORGEOUS!!! I defy anyone to think she is other than pure TB!! Her legs reach to the sky and she has a walking stride like a giraffe…and runs like a Derby winner!!
The surprise part was that we haven’t bred any mares for two years!!! (We thought!) All winter we thought this mare was just being a hog!..when the other mares finished their grain and went out on 40 acres to nibble dry forage, this mare stood and devoured the round bale. EVERY day - piglet. As spring came on she just kept getting fatter and about the first of June I told my husband that we were just going to have to put her in the round pen for a few hours a day. Then one evening DH remembered that when I made a quick round trip to St. Louis last July the mares got out in the yard. (I knew that) What he failed to mention was that Blue had jumped his gate and was among them, but “not doing anything or paying any attention to any of the mares”!! Sounds like a teenager quickie took place, huh??? I had the vet out the next day to ultrasound and of course there was a BIG baby!!! Vet said another 5-6 weeks, but the feet were huge! A day late and dollar short, I immediately put the mare in a Bermuda paddock with hay and the foaling stall access. 10 days later - after a night of terrible thunder storms and high winds - DH went to feed the mare in the foaling stall and there stood the filly. He came to the house and woke me with a simple “you’ve got a foal”!! …and left to continue morning chores. I jerked on clothes, grabbed an arm full of towels, Iodine and enema and ran to the stall - only 80 feet from the house. There stood a DRY, non - wobblie, milk sated filly!! I gave the enema, but later found fresh baby poo out in the paddock next to the placenta. First time since moving to OK that we didn’t have a retained placenta issue. Guess I’m fired now! Who needs ME??? Vet came and pulled blood for protein and IGG. Everything was excellently high despite the fact that the evening before when I checked, the mare had a size minus double AA udder. Talk about do it yourself. This was a maiden mare, ON fescue, delivered alone. Guess it makes up for all the disaster foalings we’ve had over the past 6 years in Oklahoma!! Beautiful baby too!! Touch of the Blues should be a proud Grandpa!! Name to be “A Touch Stormy”. Here’s an album of photos of Daddy, Blue. http://s1038.photobucket.com/albums/a466/Crosscreeksh/Seattle%20Blues%20-%20ISH%20Stallion%20%2010-10/ Pictures of the oops coming soon!
Congrats!!
And apparently, I have the exception to the rule. Sigh! We have a mare with a foal at side. Has been bred to the same stallion resulting in 7 different foals, and she will NOT let the stallion near her…and she is in full heat. We tried her without the foal, foal close by, you name it, we tried it. Tried a shot of dorm and torb which seemed to incapacitate her…and all seemed fine right until the stallion tried to mount and all hell broke loose. I’m at my wits end :no: I’m thinking we will have to just wait and wean baby early and then try and live cover at that time.
Ain’t it just great??? I wish the mares would take a short course in breeding…rules, regulations, etiquette and all that stuff. Also read the action of drugs so they know how to react when they are supposed to be in la la land!!! Or maybe the drug company people should do some “field training”! Years ago a vet had treated a horse with Rompon and was singing the praises to my husband (holding the horse’s head). The last words we heard were…“the good thing about THIS drug is that the horses DO NOT STRIKE!!” With that statement the horse in question put both feet on my husband’s chest!!
The mare that was the topic of this thread did NOT get covered while she was here and we are waiting for the owners to pick her up tomorrow. I can’t wait to see if they find an embryo on the next ultrasound. She was NOT going to get covered here. Someone would have ended up dead!!
Daventry - is AI not on option for you?? Sounds like mare wants to skip motherhood this year.
Perhaps you should give the studs of her other foals a friendly call?
[QUOTE=Daventry;5694427]
And apparently, I have the exception to the rule. Sigh! We have a mare with a foal at side. Has been bred to the same stallion resulting in 7 different foals, and she will NOT let the stallion near her…and she is in full heat. We tried her without the foal, foal close by, you name it, we tried it. Tried a shot of dorm and torb which seemed to incapacitate her…and all seemed fine right until the stallion tried to mount and all hell broke loose. I’m at my wits end :no: I’m thinking we will have to just wait and wean baby early and then try and live cover at that time.[/QUOTE]
It’s scenarios like this … with no apparent solution … that really make me pleased that almost 100% of the time we collect the stallion and A.I. the mare. It started 20 years ago for two reasons. I was already doing some warmblood/pony crosses to establish a sportpony line, with A.I. being about the only reasonable option in some cases. Plus about 75% of the the time I had no help, I was on my own. Dealing with just one animal at a time really does cut down on the risks.
I always wear steel toed boots when collecting or breeding and on the insistence of another SO, will probably add a helmet and vest to the mix as well. Things just happen so darned fast at times, you usually cant put the events on “pause”, run and get the protective gear, and take up where you left off. And since the majority of times I am on my own for these events, it just makes the most sense to protect as many parts of my body as I possibly can, especially the important ones … :yes: