I want to buy mo' pretty western saddles. Update p. 3: My mind has been pried open

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7142689]
A high cantle, deep seat configuration is made for somebody who likes to ride with feet forward, braced against the cantle. Very common, and saddlers build saddles for that, because people want them. Lots of ‘Wade style’ slick fork, post horn saddles made that way.[/QUOTE]

Like the shape of the fork, there’s nothing about the cantle that determines anything about the way a saddle rides. How hard it is to mount or whether it catches you in the back, sure, but not where your feet end up.

What determines whether a saddle is legs-forward oriented is the relationship between the lowest point on the seat, the location of the stirrup leathers, and the width of the stirrup itself. If the distance between the low point on the seat and the place where the ball of your foot rests is about the same as the length of your foot, then pressure in the ball of your foot won’t send the stirrup forward. If that distance is much greater, then pressure will kick the stirrups forward.

That’s why a saddle that rides fine for a larger person won’t ride the same for a smaller one, or why adding wider stirrups can correct issues with stirrup leather placement.

In fact, most older saddles in the CA tradition (typically very deep seat, high cantle) ride very balanced because the seat length is much shorter. Newer, especially pleasure or reining type saddles that are MUCH longer then the older ones are much more likely to be “dashboard” type saddles.

Older style, new construction saddle:
http://www.mcgowansaddlery.com/images/albums/NewAlbum_a40ea/tn_1200_dfce28ee19df65d6ec97bd48485ee475.jpg.png
New style, long-type reining saddle:
http://www.valleyvet.com/swatches/31114_L_A28_vvs.jpg

Older saddles also tend to have much flatter seats then newer ones, which allows more flexibility and doesn’t encourage poor position. If your personal conformation doesn’t match a quick rise saddle, it will tend to kick your feet forward as your pelvis rocks back. Even Mr Dorrance’s Wade was build like that:
http://www.cowboyshowcase.com/images/articles/wade_s2.jpg

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Melelio;7143853]
It IS a Wade tree, with post horn removed due to preference.[/QUOTE]

Then it WAS a wade tree, and no longer is. That’s not even a roping horn, let alone a wood post, dally horn.

Also: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/announcement.php?f=107&a=23

[Pocket_Pony]

aktill, I can’t even imagine riding in that first saddle you posted, with the deep seat. I can see how it would keep you in there but I think I’d feel claustrophobic! And what about that seam across the middle where the strap is inlaid? I would imagine it could cause some chafing or blistering in all the wrong places! :eek: What style of saddle is that?

[Fillabeana]

Like the shape of the fork, there’s nothing about the cantle that determines anything about the way a saddle rides.

I agree with that 100%.

However, most of those folks who like to ride with their feet forward, also like a taller and more upright cantle, because it is more comfortable to brace against. So I guess what I’m really saying, is that you can be tipped off to a ‘Wade’ saddle made for someone to ride with feet out front (rather than feet underneath you), by a tall and upright cantle. And by the oxbow stirrups:
http://www.buckaroocountry.com/calendar.html
Fellow on the black/white paint is an extraordinary hand. His saddle is made for him to ride with his feet out front- oxbow stirrups, largish, upright cantle. I’ve met him in person, seen him at ranch rodeos, his saddle is a real wade, the stirrups are hung such that it could be ridden with legs underneath if you wanted to. I’m just saying, that USUALLY a tall and upright cantle is made for a rider who wants to put his feet out front and brace against it.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7143971]
aktill, I can’t even imagine riding in that first saddle you posted, with the deep seat. I can see how it would keep you in there but I think I’d feel claustrophobic! And what about that seam across the middle where the strap is inlaid? I would imagine it could cause some chafing or blistering in all the wrong places! :eek: What style of saddle is that?[/QUOTE]

That’s a half-seat saddle, and built right, they don’t pinch at all. The stirrup leathers are recessed slightly from the seat, and the part you sit on isn’t right over the leather anyway. In fact, they actually generally have better stirrup movement then a full seat saddle.

It’s an older style, but lots of folks still like them because they’re much lighter and provide much better airflow over the horse’s back. The downside is that constructing the seat such that it stays together over many years is much trickier.

This one is my current favorite (watch the video, it’s pretty incredible):
http://tcowboyarts.org/members/john-willemsma/?gallerytag=willemsma-12

[Fillabeana]

I want the wooly saddlebags that aren’t saddlebags. They look like they’d be a great way to transport fleas from one ranch to another

[Pocket_Pony]

I’m watching the video of the making of that saddle - OMG, what a work of art and skill. And how does one clean something like that?!

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7143994]
I want the wooly saddlebags that aren’t saddlebags. They look like they’d be a great way to transport fleas from one ranch to another ;)[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7143994]
I want the wooly saddlebags that aren’t saddlebags. They look like they’d be a great way to transport fleas from one ranch to another ;)[/QUOTE]

Angora anqueros, or saddle pockets. Many saddlemakers have complained that the “eau de stinky goat” takes some getting used to even BEFORE they’re used.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7144022]
I’m watching the video of the making of that saddle - OMG, what a work of art and skill. And how does one clean something like that?![/QUOTE]

Easy, they don’t. Most $50,000 saddles stay under glass display cases. TCAA exhibit items aren’t generally using items, they’re more for collectors. Not to say they’re not perfectly functional, just most folks gasp at $5k, never mind $50k.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7143985]
I’m just saying, that USUALLY a tall and upright cantle is made for a rider who wants to put his feet out front and brace against it.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s still worth checking out each case. I intentionally got a high cantle on mine because I like the look, and they’re a bit more secure in cutting work:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/TindurKnight2011.jpg

I also got a “dressage seat” in mine, and with these stirrups never find myself fighting to keep a balanced seat:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/TindurMartinBlack.jpg

I’ve met others with similar rigs. It’s really more the relationship between the low point and the stirrup hanging point. Within reason, with a decent photo you can see this in most saddles.

[Fillabeana]

Ooooh, Adam, would you be kind enough to share your experience at the Martin Black clinic? Start another thread?

Your saddle looks remarkably like mine, Adam. Taller cantle, no cheyenne roll to grab, and probably, looking at Tindur and his, um, roundness, a tree made for rounder ribs and wider shoulders. And mine is rigged closer to 3/4. I’ll have to post a pic now.

But Pocket, again I think you owe it to yourself to ride in a saddle like mine or Adam’s, (one that reasonably fits you, puts you with your leg where it belongs) before you spend any $$ on a western saddle.

[katarine]

This saddle of mine has a 4" cantle and puts you right where you want to be
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4981119534433&set=a.4050505389661.2176174.1492791407&type=1&theater

I agree you should sit in it before you buy one.

[Fillabeana]

Nice saddle, katarine. Stirrups hung that much ‘under you’ just aren’t all that common.

I wouldn’t want to rope much without a large diameter post horn, though. It makes a big difference when you want to use the dallies as a ‘clutch’ to control how long the rope is between you and the cow. Lots of little bitty dallies are much harder to deal with, and you need three or four, as opposed to one or two, to hold a calf or cow.

The really upright, tall ‘brace against them’ cantles I have seen are usually in the 4 1/2 to 5 inch range. I prefer my 3 1/2" cantle, which won’t bump you in the back going downhill, or down banks and such. I think 4" is still pretty much in the range of reasonable.

[katarine]

Oh no, it’s definitely NOT a roping saddle. It’s got some dally marks from me ponying pigs. I mean yearlings

I had it made for my QH, then had another made with a bicycle seat for my TWH. I LOVE them. Sadly I just don’t need the QH sized one anymore so I’m halfheartedly trying to sell it.

My TWH’s Rocking R:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/2929502464/in/photolist-5sSt2b-6HwLRR-9cYYTQ-9cVTo2-8JBqYH

[tinah]

[QUOTE=aktill;7144069]
I think it’s still worth checking out each case. I intentionally got a high cantle on mine because I like the look, and they’re a bit more secure in cutting work:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/TindurKnight2011.jpg

I also got a “dressage seat” in mine, and with these stirrups never find myself fighting to keep a balanced seat:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/TindurMartinBlack.jpg

I’ve met others with similar rigs. It’s really more the relationship between the low point and the stirrup hanging point. Within reason, with a decent photo you can see this in most saddles.[/QUOTE]
You ride a thewell pony! What a cutie!

[Pocket_Pony]

What’s a bicycle seat??

And I love Tindur - especially that picture of him with the cows! How does he like cow work?

[Fillabeana]

A bicycle seat is a seat padded in just a small area, rather than the full-suede style:
http://www.freckerssaddlery.com/images/saddles/27.jpg
that’s the ‘bicycle’ or inlaid seat
versus a ‘standard’ padded seat… this one’s in ostrich, but most of them are in suede:
http://www.nrsworld.com/prodimages/10626-DEFAULT-l.jpg

[katarine]

This shows mine well:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/2928636111/in/photolist-5sN2u4-5sNt9R-5sNwsn-5sSt2b-6HwLRR-9cYYTQ-9cVTo2-8JBqYH

[MistyBlue]

I’m learning more about western saddles reading this than I’ve learned at tack shops. Thanks for that folks!

I never heard of a bicycle seat and I LOVE it. I’m not a western rider really, but I want to learn more and ride more western. And one issues (among many) I’ve had has been that being narrow hipped, many to most western saddles have been uncomfortable for me. And padded seats make them feel wider in the seat. How common are bicycle seats? Are they hard to find?

I also really like the looks of the Mr Dorance saddle that atkill posted. I like the flatter seat. Being on the short side and a jumper rider since forever, western saddles tend to make me feel less free to move or trapped or…something…not sure.

And that artwork saddle…hol-y cow is that gorgeous! What an artisan that man is.