Update:
See page 3 if you only want to talk about Wade saddles.
Original:
My shopping addiction has reared its ugly head.
Which means I think it’s a good idea to buy another western saddle. And check out the great rationale!
It’s functional.
It’s pretty.
It’s a deal.
You know I am right. Enable me, please.
You may wish to peruse this blog first (that’s the first post; work your way forward).
You may (or may not) thank me later. 
Oh, I’m with you. I find myself wanting a reining saddle. There’s nothing wrong with my show saddle or my work saddle, but I still want one. Even have the saddle I want in mind already. LOL
if it fits do it
I have been eyeing lovely saddles that have been great deals, only no horse so hard to justify a purchase when I am not sure it will fit later on
Temptation, yer supposed to resist, after all I gotta ask; Do I really need another saddle?
I just had to get me a good reining saddle, one with hermann oak leather and a tree designed by a lifelong trainer. Jack Brainard.
Since I put function over appearance (way over) I didn’t get any decorations on it. No tooling or anything extra. Except some strings to tie stuff on. When it gets old looking and scratched up, it’ll look as good as ever.
After all, the training a horse has is what I want to get down to perfection, what the saddle looks like matters not a wit.
However what the horse feels underneath matters. Which is why I use the corrector pad, so far it’s the best thing I can find to make a rigid saddle fit a flexible horse. With some careful shim adjustments a lot of variation in fit can be obtained. With an extra stack of shims made from closed cell foam sleeping pad, I was able to make the saddle fit a paso fino, but the saddle is a bit large for him so I finally started using a Kimberly australian instead. I like using a bareback pad, but with my couple hour rides I feel more comfortable in a saddle, and I think he does too since it spreads out the weight much better on both sides.
Go for quality, highest possible. and highest quality is not highest price so I discovered. My custom JB reining saddle was $1600, (probably a bit more now) and I can find a whole lot out there a lot higher priced, but I don’t think they’re any higher quality, maybe just a well known brand name or pretty decorations.
On the other hand, if ya already have a good saddle, why get another?
Spend yer hard earned dough on some more training videos, after all, what good is a good saddle without a well trained horse underneath. I’d suggest videos in the realm of what’s being called “light hand’s horsemanship”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG-RQ_2hUlg
I think you should buy, buy, buy. And send all your old tack to me. 
Internet ghost ate my first response.
Yes, you may get a western saddle.
But in my opinion, it’s not going to be worth paying for a saddle in addition to what you already have, unless it’s a pretty good one.
Before you buy a western saddle, go try a real Wade saddle, one that’s on a Warren Wright (or Rod Nikkel, or Freckers) tree, that puts your legs underneath you in a dressage position.
You can occasionally find these, maybe old and not shiny or flower-carved, for a great deal. Like, $1500 is a great deal if it’s in good using condition, these things are hard to wear out in one person’s riding lifetime. But if you sit in one, you won’t care that it ain’t pretty!
And, if finances only allow for a little at a time, you could put real silver on the saddle string conchos, the horn cap, the cantle, etc.
And also, if it’s truly ugly, but heavenly to ride in and fits horses well, you could have the saddle rebuilt on its original tree/seat- all the flower carving or basketweave stamping you want. Just please don’t get out the bedazzler and put Swarovski crystals on it.
Or, just have one made. An average, a made-right Wade tree saddle will really fit just about anything. The deal with the saddle fit, is that most horses with ‘saddle fit’ issues are ridden in a perpetual brace, with their weight dumped on the forehand, and carrying themselves crooked. The HORSE is therefore addressing the SADDLE tree crookedly and/or with the muscles that should support the saddle braced, sucked away from the saddle, or otherwise not used correctly. Then, you get bridging or high-pressure areas that are sore or white-haired, lumps in the muscles, etc and the horse’s back hurts. The bars of the tree can’t distribute weight properly if the horse is sucking its back muscles away and concentrating the weight bearing on just a couple of spots.
Anyway, you’d be surprised how one ‘medium’ saddle, padded right, will fit a range of backs. And how a horse’s back will change when it learns to carry itself well.
Come on over the hill to the desert, put your butt in my Wade (assuming you’re somewhere near my butt size, or my husband’s- his saddle is an inch larger seat than mine). We’re going to be riding 4 or 5 hours a day looking for new baby calves here shortly.
[QUOTE=VaqueroToro;7132379]
You may wish to peruse this blog first (that’s the first post; work your way forward).
You may (or may not) thank me later. :D[/QUOTE]
Seen that Blog of Tack Abominations.
I’m impressed by a blogger who made the effort to collect 'em all in one place. It’s like the lab that has a library of anthrax and ebola and the HIV virus all in one place. A veritable shop of horrors.
Also, I’m impressed that those items were made. Before you produce something fugly and market it, think about how many people had to say “yes” to that kool-aid. Remarkable.
Hopefully my taste won’t be so bad.
But y’all are welcome to fly your “pretty” saddles up the flag pole here and see if we salute.
OK, seriously.
Take a gander at the 16" Broken Horn most of the way down the page. Some kind of monogrammed conches and a scalloped skirt:
http://www.just4showsaddlery.com/Show_Saddles.html
Not enough pictures. Before it was sold on ebay, you could see more.
That’s one of the saddles that caused my relapse.
Fancy!
I was talking to Loren Skyhorse yesterday as I’ve got a Skyrider saddle coming on trial (their “off-the-shelf” lower-end saddles, but still more than I’ve ever spent on a saddle, I think!) and he was talking about custom saddles he’s made for $75,000. I had to ask him, “what kind of saddle do you get for $75,000?” Take a look at this page for examples (not that any of these are 75k, I’m not sure, but the one with all the silver feathers he said was quite expensive): http://www.skyhorse.com/sky/html/collectable_saddles.html
People have him make these fully functional saddles . . . just for decoration! :eek:
Take a gander at the 16" Broken Horn most of the way down the page
Oh, pretty…lovely floral carving.
Ok, you have my permission. But if you want to keep it nice, you’re going to have to keep it in the living room, and dust it off and polish its silver regularly.
I’ve got a Skyrider saddle coming on trial (their “off-the-shelf” lower-end saddles, but still more than I’ve ever spent on a saddle, I think!
Pocket, I’m going to give you some unsolicited advice here…
I don’t know specifically about Loren Skyhorse, SkyRider saddles, or how these fit a horse or ride.
They are lovely.
Taking a look around his website, I see his saddlebags start at $750.
I think he is getting a very, very high premium for his design, carving, handstitching skills.
It’s art, and worth what someone will pay for it. Question is, does this art MOVE you?
My husband’s Warren Wright tree, Wade saddle cost $2500, new, made for him and the type of horse he typically rides. It has no tooling, carving, anything because my husband wanted it PLAIN. (Tried to talk him into some basketstamping, but no go. Now he thinks MY saddle is really attractive, with its stamping and a few flowers. Oh well.)
If Mr. Skyhorse’s saddles really rock your world, you think they are gorgeous, that’s dandy. If you like it, and you want to pay for it, I have zero problem with that. And if the saddle you have on trial is heaven when you sit in it, and it fits your fabulous Mustang, also dandy.
But I think that before you spend more than $1500 or so on a saddle, you owe it to yourself to look into what your specific saddle needs would be, with a good saddlemaker. Someone who can tell you about why you might want different features, like a cheyenne roll on the cantle. Or a high cantle, or a lower one. A high cantle can support your back, but it can also poke you in the back going downhill or off a bank/jump, and it is a pain to get your leg over if you have old hips.
This is from a Skyhorse webpage describing a trail saddle:
As in all our trail saddles, the strings are looped around D-rings so more strings can be added. These strings can be removed and used in other ways and the D-rings can be used for extra clips.
The D-rings are screwed down into the tree. If the screw tears out, you have a stripped-out hole, and repair is going to be a b!tc#.
From the leatherworker forum, an explanation of how saddle strings are attached traditionally, going down through the skirting and around the tree:
Begin quote:
The strings are to tie things on with.
To further cloud the issue, they also can be drilled through the saddle tree and looped through the skirts to help hold the skirts up tight to the tree and the parts they go through on top of the tree cinched down into place. It is more secure to have the strings looped through the tree, than through just the leather on top. An even less secure way is to loop them through the leather conchos and nail or screw them onto top leathers. To drill a tree or not for strings on saddles will divide saddlemakers into two camps.
End quote
From this webpage http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=5995&st=15
My husband’s old saddle was a well made arena roping saddle, no saddle strings at all but I put some on with D rings, the way the Skyrider trail saddle was made. (Unscrew the concho, attach a D-ring to the concho screw, screw the concho back into the tree.)
When I used the strings on a D ring, to attach a cantle bag, the stress from the tied-on stuff pulled out the concho and screw. Luckily, I didn’t lose the unique concho. But that type of construction isn’t really appropriate for my uses here on the ranch, actually I don’t know why it would be used on endurance/trail saddles and such.
Further, I think since you have enjoyed dressage in the past, and are interested in riding more with Buck, Bryan Neubert and others, you owe it to yourself to ride in a good Wade saddle- not just sit in it for a bit, but ride for a clinic or a 6 hour+ trail ride/cattle gather.
And I do think that you ought to ride in a good Wade before you buy the Skyhorse saddle, even if you really like the Skyhorse saddle.
Fillabeana, thanks for you input. I’m lucky enough where I live to have an independent saddle fitter who comes to my house with a trailer full of saddles. In my saddle-shopping adventures, I have tried probably a combination of 20 western saddles on Mac (and I’ve also used them for my dressage saddle shopping), of all different styles and configurations, from various manufacturers. During this process we start out with all possible saddles that might be a fit and we put them on his back. Then we observe how the tree fits visually, put our hands underneath the panels while the horse is standing, then also have a handler walk the horse forward and back whilst our hands are under the saddle so we can feel how the pressure changes, if there are any pressure points, how the saddle moves, etc. From there, we narrow it down. Then I sit in each of the saddles on the rack. From there we narrow it down again. So maybe we start with 20, go down to 10, go down to 5, then we put each saddle on his back, cinch it up, and I have a short little ride up and down the driveway just so I can feel the balance of the saddle. Then we narrow it down again. So ultimately I end up with my top 3 saddles and I go into my arena and I ride in each of them - go through the paces of lateral work, WTC, transitions, etc.
The saddle that I am getting is the one that fits my horse and me the best. It is the saddle that feels most like a dressage saddle to me in its balance, the quality of the craftsmanship, and the fit for the horse. I actually hoped I wouldn’t like it best because I think it is the least attractive of all the other saddles that I tried!
Oh, and it isn’t one of their fancy tooled-and-silvered-out-the-wazoo saddles, it is very plain with minimal tooling and conchos. I actually don’t tend to use any of the saddle strings at all, except maybe to tie my mecate up.
I am actually going to a Bryan Neubert clinic next weekend (YAY!) and the saddle should arrive just before then, so I’ll have a chance to really have my butt in it for a few hours and see how we both like it.
I think the thing I find most difficult about “western” is the saddles! :lol: Many of them feel too bulky to me, or feel like I’m too far away from my horse, or feel like I can’t get my leg in the right place, or even on the horse properly. This saddle made it seem easy and I didn’t have to fight the saddle in order to ride well.
Ultimately, I mostly ride in the trail and do dressage, so while I love the look of the Wade saddle, it is too heavy and doesn’t really fit the purpose of my riding. I like room to move in the seat and don’t like a high cantle/deep seat (same for my dressage saddle). If I were actually doing ranch work, vs. just playing around with cows at a clinic now and then, then it might make sense to look for something more heavy-duty. As much as I’d like to dress the part, I’d just be a poser considering what I actually do and need. :lol:
Many of them feel too bulky to me, or feel like I’m too far away from my horse, or feel like I can’t get my leg in the right place, or even on the horse properly.
so while I love the look of the Wade saddle, it is too heavy and doesn’t really fit the purpose of my riding. I like room to move in the seat and don’t like a high cantle/deep seat (same for my dressage saddle).
Pocket, I suggested you find and ride in a real Wade saddle, precisely because they put you in a dressage position. I’ve only ever ridden in two western saddles that not only put my leg in the right place just walking or trotting along, but let me get a solid leg under me in a galloping position (as you might use on a cross-country course). Both were ‘real’ Wade tree saddles.
A high cantle, deep seat configuration is made for somebody who likes to ride with feet forward, braced against the cantle. Very common, and saddlers build saddles for that, because people want them. Lots of ‘Wade style’ slick fork, post horn saddles made that way.
I’d bet you $100 that if you rode in my Wade saddle, on Mac, it would both fit Mac (with the right thickness pad) and fit you (assuming you’re near my weight and height, 5’6" or almost and 145 or so). And that you’d think it was very different from the usual ‘western’ saddle in how it puts you where you need to be, yet it stays out of your way.
You’re right that they’re heavy duty, and that you wouldn’t have need for a really heavy-made saddle or a big post horn with what you do right now. There are ‘lightweight’ or ‘strip’ options that can make a saddle significantly lighter.
As for the part where you aren’t interested in roping anything, I’d say that if you continue with Buck, Bryan and such, you might want to give it a try someday.
It is a bit like being a dressage/trail rider that isn’t interested in jumping. But when a rider can explore a bit of jumping, the athletic abilities and skillsets of both horse and rider expand a lot, and thus it isn’t just about going over jumps- it’s about timing, trust, having the life way up in the horse (with the thrust it takes to clear an obstacle well), and more. Likewise, good cattle handling and good rope handling are a huge way to develop your horse, your horsemanship, and your partnership with your horse.
Do you remember in the movie Buck, when the longhorn cattle come trotting into the arena, where Buck says, “You’re about to find out what it’s like to actually use a horse, and how nice they can be when they get used. To work a horse properly on a cow, that’s the coolest feeling that there is.”
In other words, getting the lightness and partnership, that being of one mind, that togetherness- that’s the first part. When you put that together with working cattle (or another job that the horse KNOWS he’s doing not FOR you, but WITH you), that is what Buck is striving for.
So you might want to do some cow working, rope handling, roping, later. And those small-diameter horns are a nuisance, compared to a wide-diameter post horn.
And, hopefully in 25 years, you still want to ride. These Wade tree saddles really do fit most horses well, so there would be a very high probability that a Wade saddle you had that fits Mac, would fit your next horse as well.
So anyway, I think you’d be doing yourself a favor to ride in a real Wade before you spend your money on a western saddle, because in my opinion it would fit your current purpose and riding style exactly. And your dressage saddle will do just fine (even working/herding cattle), until you want to learn to handle a rope. There’s pics of Tom Dorrance in a Passier (which was LIGHT but put him in the right place), in one of my books- when he got older, he used it if he wouldn’t need to use his rope. And I’m pretty sure Betty Staley has worked cattle ‘properly’ in her dressage saddle, too 
Not to derail this thread too much, but even having worked cows only twice (and when I say worked, I mean going to a clinic and moving them around from one end of the pasture to another, holding them under a tree, separating them, moving them around some more, trying not to let any of them get separated, trying to get back ones that did get separated), it was the most fun ever. And it DID completely put to use the “flatwork” that we do. And there then became the purpose of what we did (did that come out right?) in the arena. And I stopped thinking about “does my leg go here and what about which rein?” or whatever and just RODE. And it made sense. And things just clicked. And did I mention what fun it was? :yes: And I’d doubt I even did it properly! :lol:
And to derail it even just a little bit further…yesterday I was feeling lazy enough that I didn’t want to ride but not so lazy that I didn’t want to get Mc out, so we did some at-liberty work in the arena (I don’t have a round pen) and it was really interesting how he was connected to me without halter or lead rope. We did our ground work exercises of him walking with me, stopping with me, moving the hindquarters, moving the front end, halting, backing up, etc. - all without physical connection. It made me realize how tuned in they really are. And in today’s ride he felt so much more responsive to a lighter touch, it was really odd.
Anyway, I appreciate your suggestion and your taking the time to explain the saddle to me. Sorry to derail, OP!
And I stopped thinking about “does my leg go here and what about which rein?” or whatever and just RODE. And it made sense. And things just clicked. And did I mention what fun it was?
That space, where you aren’t worried about little particular stuff, where your horse can find your intention about what you’re trying to do…heaven! And SO good for your riding, and the horse’s education. Yes, it’s even better when you get the reins, legs, signals refined and correct, but the point is exactly that they don’t have to be ‘correct signals’ to have that melding of intent and sense of accomplishment.
And yeah, utterly incredible how tuned in they can be. My horse AND my dog tried to tell me what a bad idea it was to continue up the ridge, to check fence the other day. They both knew there was a bad thunderstorm coming, and were both ‘very poorly behaved’ until I INSISTED we were going thataway. Pretty scary deal, that thunderstorm, though when it went right over us, we were two miles away in a canyon with 250-foot-high sides. Lightning struck right overhead, on the tops of the canyon. My horse danced around before every close lightning strike, he must have felt the electricity with his shod hooves right before the strikes. We got very wet (don’t look down at your foot with a big-brimmed hat, you’ll dump a quart of water RIGHT into your boots!) I looked at the map later- my horse let me know that he didn’t want to continue down the road to the trailer, but stop right HERE- he put us in exactly the low point between the highest canyon walls. But wow, what they know, and what they’ll tell us if we’ll pay attention!
Anyway, I appreciate your suggestion and your taking the time to explain the saddle to me.
Hey, I thought maybe I was just harassing you
And I hope mvp is enjoying the stories.
Here’s a pretty Wade for sale…use it as a reining or comfy trail saddle…and wide for them warmblood backs!
Oh, and there’s one more detail about leg position that you might learn here in a month or a year or when you get there- Buck and Bryan will tell you to use your leg/stirrup forward of the girth, to use it on the horse’s elbow or shoulder, to help him understand to move his front end laterally. This is sort of similar to your inside leg coming back to ask the horse to move his HQ to the outside, just with the front end instead of the HQs.
This move is just about impossible with a good ‘jumping’ leg, that is actively pushing weight down into the heel, like this http://www.chronofhorse.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery-image/webwoostockhopeglynnn.jpg (COTH photo)…and a photo of George Morris pushing weight down into his heels:
http://eventingnation.com/eventingnation.com/images/2013/08/Screen-Shot-2013-08-28-at-1.25.17-PM-150x150.png
this is CORRECT when you are jumping, just to be clear…
You need more of a dressage leg to use your stirrup forward like Buck and Bryan do. It doesn’t mean that your heel won’t go down, but the balls of your foot are pretty much a stable base, you aren’t trying to get weight below that and into your heels:http://www.chronofhorse.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery-image/webwoostockhopeglynnn.jpg or here’s Reata Brannaman http://allenrussell.photoshelter.com/image/I0000Krqm.XYo.1E …you can see that her heel will go down, but she’s not aiming her weight that way.
That is the leg that comfortably allows you to use the stirrup forward on the shoulder or elbows. It doesn’t work right, if you’re pushing weight down into your heels. And it helps if your saddle has a ‘legs underneath you’, dressage type position rather than a ‘brace against the cantle with your feet forward’ position.
Also, horses really don’t like being squeezed to go faster. They don’t like being told ‘more life’ by having two heels pressed into their ribs like so (imagine doing this with both heels at once, squeezing) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Andalusier_3_-galoppierend.jpg/200px-Andalusier_3-_galoppierend.jpg
If you notice, Buck and Bryan will ask their horses to move off, or go faster, by sort of ‘fluttering’ their feet a bit. It will be so sublte you won’t see it on a bridle horse, they’re just wiggling a toe a bit…but you make the request by fluttering your feet at first. If the horse ignores that, they’ll take both feet out to the side, and come in with the stirrups with a big WHAP at the elbows. That little bit of flutter (backed up with the whap/crop/whatever) is a lot more pleasant and polite a way to ask him to bring up his life. Sort of like how dogs don’t like to be pat-pat-patted on their heads, yet people do it ALL the friggin’ time- if you take the time to notice, dogs don’t like that. And horses don’t LIKE being squeezed by two heels at once, you’ll notice ‘lazy’ type horses getting much more responsive and agreeable once you take squeeze-with-both-heels out of your repertoire.
[QUOTE=Melelio;7143284]
Here’s a pretty Wade for sale…use it as a reining or comfy trail saddle…and wide for them warmblood backs!
http://makaijac.webs.com/thingsforsale.htm[/QUOTE]
This isn’t actually a Wade, actually. Not even a wood post horn saddle.
[QUOTE=aktill;7143804]
This isn’t actually a Wade, actually. Not even a wood post horn saddle.[/QUOTE]
It IS a Wade tree, with post horn removed due to preference.
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